NL ROY

I'm not dismissing him because of it, but I am deducting for it.

It's EASIER to get those stats under those circumstances.

I tried.

 

I didn't realize sac flies were only good for a half run.

 

I had exited this thread, shaking my head.

But since you decided to pipe up.

Chalk up another post to the intellectually dishonest.

 

Ramirez makes outs MORE OFTEN than Zimmerman. He gets on base LESS FREQUENTLY. He hits with LESS POWER.

And again, Zimmerman is the superior defensive player.

You have too many facts working against you, Colombo.

 

Fact is, they are in a dead heat in the three categories you mention.

Fact is, Zimmerman's production is slightly above average among third basemen.

Ramirez's is top 5 among shortstops.

You really don't get the importance of Ramirez's 44 steals, either. Eighty-four times, Ramirez has gotten himself to second or third all by himself. In addition he has 13 HRs from middle infield position.

His steals and slugging percentage have allowed for him to score on groundouts and sacrifice flies dozens of times.

I know none of this sinks in, but I still enjoy instructing you.

 

This is why I quit trying. I'd be ashamed typing shit like that.

You're not smarter than everyone else ... you just think you know something the rest of us don't.

 

The way I feel about cats signaling Sieg Heil!

 

I hate agreeing with Pube, but he makes a few valid points:

HanRam's production is quite good for a SS, while Zimmerman was about an average offensive third baseman this year. Not that he doesn't have tremendous upside, to channel Mel Kiper, but 18 bombs and .476 slugging from a third baseman isn't as valuable as .459 OPS, 13 bombs, 100 runs and 44 SBs from a shortstop.

Ramirez, meanwhile, has hit 10 of his 13 homers since July 1. He struggled for stretches in the first few months, but he has really come on of late -- his OPS was .726 on June 21, and now is back up to .807. He makes errors, like all young players do, but he is a terrific young player who will make the Red Sox regret trading him. He could break the Marlins record for runs scored in a season, and his 80 percent stolen base success rate is very good -- not excellent, but very good.

My one quibble with Pube is his contention that HanRam's steals put him over the top. Stolen bases is one of those stats whose value has been inflated by the popularity of fantasy baseball. As long as a player converts at least 75 percent of his SB attempts he is helping his team, so Hanley is definitely valuable in that department. But let's not go overboard -- his SBs help him as much as Zimmerman's excellent defense helps him.

That being said, both would be fine selections for ROY, or Uggla. I'd probably vote for Ramirez, but Zimmerman winning would not be near the travesty Pubert makes it out to be.

 

I can live with all that.

Perhaps Josh Johnson will finish with 16 wins and make it even more interesting.

 

Had I known Columbo was the former Pube, I would not have argued so much before. Should have known. My apologies.

 

I feel the same way, Oz.

Should have known. Should have known.