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NL ROY

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Columbo, Sep 4, 2006.

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Who is most deserving of the NL Rookie of the Year

  1. Marlins SS Hanley Ramirez

    6 vote(s)
    12.2%
  2. Marlins 2B Dan Uggla

    10 vote(s)
    20.4%
  3. Marlins SP Josh Johnson

    6 vote(s)
    12.2%
  4. Nationals 3B Ryan Zimmerman

    17 vote(s)
    34.7%
  5. Marlins SP Scott Olsen

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  6. Marlins OF Josh Willingham

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Dodgers PF Andre Ethier

    2 vote(s)
    4.1%
  8. Brewers 1B Prince Fielder

    7 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    The same numbers in a pennant race are superior to the same numbers 25 games back.
     
  2. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Actually, my facts supported my argument. They opposed yours, which is your problem, not mine. Do you have a problem agreeing to disagree with others? If so, you're going to have trouble in life.

    Oh, and bigpern is right. It's not Rookie MVP, which would be different and take the playoff chase into account. NL ROY simply goes to someone who outperformed all other rookies that season. It might not be your horse, but more often that not, it's a deserving candidate.
     
  3. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Don't let the FACT that stats accumulated during a pennant race MUST hold more weight than on a team 25 games out.... don't let that fact get in the way of this:

    Ramirez's numbers are superior, in a vacuum, before factoring in playoff races.

    And, I'll have to look up Josh Johnson's numbers to see how he ranks among starting rookie pitchers in recent history.
     
  4. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Columbo, from this, the Marlins thread and the baseball thread, you seem a huge Marlins fan. So I won't even pretend to think the facts that follow might sway your opinion here.

    You can argue "superior" numbers all you want, but defense needs to factor in somewhere. Zimmerman's got a gold glove on the hot corner while Hanley's made 20 errors -- ninth-highest among all MLB players, fifth among shortstops. And guys like Angel Berroa and Clint Barmes -- not exactly known for their defense -- have better fielding percentages at shortstop than Hanley.

    Those hardly seem like "superior" numbers to me.
     
  5. Trey Beamon

    Trey Beamon Active Member

    But what about the steals?

    Hanley is in a playoff race, you know. ::)
     
  6. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Big range, big error numbers. But, OK. Let me agree, for the purposes of the discussion, that Zimmerman has an edge in defense.

    How do you quanitify stolen bases into the equation?

    My way.... stipulated... this is my way... Is by taking the net stolen bases (total SBs minus times caught) and adding those bases to the slugging percentage. Yes... I know he didn't HIT his way to second, but it prevents the category from being ignored, as they obviously are by at least a few people on this thread.

    Ramirez's OPS goes from .807 to .870.

    Zimmerman's goes from .828 to .836.

    Doesn't getting yourself into scoring position deserve statistical representation in a percentage, since voters are so beholden to percentages?

    How would you BETTER factor stolen bases?
     
  7. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Better yet, Columbo, let's try and dig up how many runs scored on Hanley's errors, and let's see how many games that might have cost the Marlins in their playoff chase. By your criteria (steals and playoff chase), Willy Taveras probably should have beaten Ryan Howard for last year's ROY.
     
  8. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    CMon... Ramirez, with 27 days to go in the season, has Tavares' 2005 numbers CRUSHED.
     
  9. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Except Taveras made only three errors in 148 games last season. Hanley has how many again? Twenty? Just saying.
     
  10. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    What position does Tavares play?

    Chrissakes.
     
  11. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    You trumped up the fact that Hanley had Taveras' offensive numbers beat, and you whine because I compare their errors? Nice.
     
  12. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Just exposes you as disingenuous and uninterested in the discussion.

    Figures.

    BTW: After your odd, rube comparison of errors between a center fielder and a shortstop, I decided to look up Zimmerman.

    His fielding percentage is .969. Ramirez's: .966.

    And, there is no position in the game where range is more penalized in this stat than shortstop.

    I thought you were a baseball fan?
     
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