NFL Week 7: John Elway's not horsing around

When the Dilfer > Marino pops up it pisses me off, because that is the outliner of the concept. A concept that seems to be holding true.

I will always take the player who can look good and can win games, but looks like hell at times, over the guy who never wins shit, but looks good when they never win shit.

 

Could you show me where, in the historical NFL standings, a quarterback has ever won a game?

 

No problem.

Rick, which position has won the most MVPs?

 

So when you say you want a "quarterback who wins," you meant MVPs?

 

Colts with Manning.

Colts without Mannning.

Add then subtract then you can have a number you can put your head around.

 

Seriously, 93D, you complain about people always jumping on your arguments, but yet you continue to make simplistic and reductionist arguments. It's honestly like arguing with a sixth grader.

 

I don't think it's a whole lot more simplistic than saying "quarterbacks don't win games, teams do." The quarterback is the most important player. Thank God Dilfer happened so everyone can say "Dilfer > Marino" and give themselves a chuckle about it. But Jim Kelly had substantially better stats than Troy Aikman did -- ergo, Kelly > Aikman? Marino had better stats than Montana throughout the 1980s -- ergo, Marino > Montana?

If Montana didn't win four Super Bowls, I don't think he'd be close to the argument about greatest quarterbacks of all time. But he did, so he is.

 

Does Kelly suddenly get better if Norwood makes his kick? If so, why?

Does Brady become less good if Vinaiteri missed a few of the big kicks he made? If so, why?

 

And round and round we go.....

 

This is again the "simplistic and reductionist" stance. Winning is a factor in judging quarterbacks. It is not THE factor. But it definitely is a factor.

To answer the specific questions, if Norwood makes the kick, Kelly still was not better than Aikman IMO; if Vinatieri misses a few of the big kicks, then yeah, there would be more questions about whether Brady can lead more than a do-or-die field-goal drive. In fact I think it's a differentiator between Brady and Montana that at the end of Brady's two finest seasons as a professional, his teams lost Super Bowls by notably underperforming on offense.

 

That is probably a very good idea. Last year, for instance, the all-purpose running Tim Tebow Sucks/Is A Deity thread really limited the discussion of Tebow to only five or six threads at a time.