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NFL HOF adds 6: Hickerson, Irvin, Mathews, Sanders, T. Thomas, Wehrli

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by RokSki, Feb 3, 2007.

  1. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member


    Kicking was a crude, imprecise endeavor in that era.

    Hall of Famer Stenerud converted 66 percent of his FGs and missed, on average, one extra point per season.

    That would get you laughed off a roster by mid-August nowadays.
  2. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Dear Columbo and co: Kicking is the only part of the sport where statistics PROVE players are better than ever. My first year on the Patriots' beat, 1987, head coach Raymond Berry said the team's stats breakdowns showed there was no kicker in the league better than a 50-50 bet from longer than 39 yards. Now they all are. Anything under that is treated like an extra point, Miss a couple and you're gone.
    Punting averages of yesteryear should be treated with the extreme caution we give 19th century baseball stats. For instance, I've wondered for years as to why Sam Baugh held the season punting average records for decades. Great as he was, it was a statistical outlier.
    Last night, I finnally figured it out. When the league's best passer was in punt formation, the punt returner's first responsibility was to cover the ends going downfield, not to catch the ball. Lots of Baugh's punts must've sailed past the other side and rolled forever, because they were worried about a fake punt TD pass.
  3. The average comes down because he was a role player at the end of his career, spending a year or two with the Godawful Rich Kotite Jets, I believe.

    Monk was in the 80s what Charlie Joiner was in the 70s. Steady, solid, dependable. And for the record, he has more career receptions and yards than Irvin, just as many Super Bowl rings and won each of them with three different QBs (though, to be fair, he was injured when the Redskins won Super Bowl XVII, got hurt in the season finale against the Cardinals I believe).

    If Stallworth and Swann are in, then Monk should be in. That's it. He's still got seven or eight years left before his initial eligibility is up, but the Hall is making this a joke.

    Andre Reid is going to have the same problem.
  4. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    For reasons more related to Freud than to Jim Thorpe, wide receiver seems to be the one position on which the selection committee hasn't been able to create a consensus standard for Hall of Fame performance. Poor Monk now faces new candidates Cris Carter and Jerry Rice during his term of eligibility.
    I have a modest suggestion. The 40 members of the selection committee should be summoned to a special meeting at Canton on induction weekend. There they could debate standards in the abstract without being burdened by the issues of the specific candidates or, most importantly, the fact the Hall of Fame election takes place ON A DEADLINE! They meet on Super Saturday a.m. and have to wrap things up one way or the other by the early afternoon.
    That's pressure, poorly conceived pressure in my opinion. It is, however, a factor the committee's many critics never take into account.
  5. slappy4428

    slappy4428 Active Member

    Nice to see Columbo prepping for his Super Bowl padfest...
  6. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    YOU are the one who, over and over again, adds NOTHING.
  7. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Statistics prove it in other positions, too. Linebackers: 240 pounds, instead of 200 in Guy's era. Linemen: 300, instead of 260 back then.

    Back to the evolution in kicking: There were nine failed extra-point kicks in the first 24 Super Bowls. None in the 16 since (slappasshole, have you ever contributed a fact as interesting as that in a single one of your posts?... I thought not).

    Kicking is the only stat that shows someone's physical makeup compared to years past.

    So, comparing Ray Guy to Brian Moorman without making allowances for physical augmentation of the past quarter centrury is nuts.

    It's like keeping Jack Lambert out of the Hall because, as a 205-pound LB lacking the speed required to make up for that lack of weight, he would be cut by the second exhibition game among today's players.
  8. slappy4428

    slappy4428 Active Member

    On this page alone, you have seven posts -- two back-to-back and another with three-straight.

    It doesn't take a pubescent twerp to see that's postpadding
  9. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Each one of them (except the ones addressing your unprovoked attack, asshole) bringing something significant to this discussion.

    You? You sit on the grass knoll shooting rifle shots, without even knowing your gun is packed with blanks.

  10. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Monk should definitely be in, but I actually think Irvin was a better player...

    I don't give a shit about stats, Irvin's career was cut short due to injury...

    Monk should have been in a long time ago, and I think Cris Carter and Tim Brown are first ballot guys...

    During Irvin's career, the only WR who was better was Jerry Rice...

    I still think the guy is a douche, but he won't be the first douche to get into Canton...
  11. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Monk probably deserves a Sutton-esque entry, but Irvin and Carter were superior players.

    Tim Brown? I would put him even below Monk perhaps. I need to look at that closer.
  12. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Being bigger and stronger does not equal statistical improvement. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are much bigger men than were Otto Graham and Bart Starr. They have gaudier numbers only because of a 30 year campaign to make the rules favor passers more and more.
    Adam Vinatieri is not bigger than was Jan Stnerud. He is, however, a demonstrably more accurate field goal kicker.
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