NBA Playoffs 2012 Running thread

Heat won 47 games the year before LeBron arrived. And then more help came in Bosh.

Cavs won 19 games the year after LeBron departed. The house of cards collapsed.

Does anything else need to be said about the "talent" on the latter team and whether this team could hope to win a title with LeBron (60something horseshit regular-season wins notwithstanding)?

 

It must be said that the East was not nearly as deep back when LeBron was on the Cavs, so it was easier to have a better record

 

The best thing about this season and series is that's its over.

Now we can get on the important issue.... training camp for Team USA starts in two weeks. Be there, dudes!

 

You didn't pick the right year to link to try to make that point. This would've been a better example:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2010.html

You can make a solid case for his supporting cast in 2010. Mo Williams was selected as an all star that year (albeit a questionable selection), they'd just acquired Antwan Jamison--who'd been around a 20 and 10 borderline all star calibur player up to that point, they'd just acquired Shaq (albeit the elderly version), and Varejao and West were solid. Their front office had certainly been busting their ass spending every penny allowed to try to upgrade the roster in the two years before the Decision.

And it should be noted that his supporting cast is sure as hell not to blame for how they went down in 2010--it was Lebron himself who utterly disappeared when it counted in that Boston series, not his teammates. Devil's point is valid on that season--they would've won that series (and probably the championship) if Lebron had played then the way he did in this year's playoffs, and there's no way in hell they'd have won it this year if he'd played like he did then.

And considering that guys like Shaq, Delonte West, and Ilgauskas had all left town with Lebron that summer, the Cavs dropping to 19 wins last year is not exactly proof how weak his Cleveland supporting cast was. Last year's Cavs roster was by no means the same one Lebron played with in Cleveland.

 

Does Dan Gilbert pay some people to post here. Jesus H Christ are we still going to talk about the supporting cast in Cleveland. i won't break the rules and dig up an old post (and i don't think it was 93devil) but i remember something about how Anderson Varejao is way underrated. he may be the best NBA player who looks like Carlito, but other than that he's slightly above average and hustles a lot. how bout LeBron made some guys better. oh hell no couldn't be that, he's selfish, a whiner, etc.

 

Where the fuck in my post did you see me claim that Lebron is "selfish, a whiner. etc."? I've never made any such claim.

As others have pointed out, these NBA discussions tend to fall back on simplistic narratives, without regard to what is generally a more detailed and complicated reality. And one of those simplistic narratives that Lebron fans fall back on (and which seems to be gaining momentum today) is the one about how how his crappy supporting cast is the only reason he didn't win a title in Cleveland. As usual, the reality is more complex and less clean cut than that. That sure is hell is NOT the main reason he failed to win a title in 2010. Lebron has nobody but himself to blame for how the Cavs went down in that Boston series.

 

didn't say it was you. just that often people think he is selfish then root against him and try to diminish what he's done. yeah he came up small in that Boston series. but he didn't have a good supporting cast. not sure why you'd mention Shaq and Ilgauskas though. if those guys played in 10-11 what's Cleveland win 3 more games. weren't both guys pretty much done in 10.

 

It was good enough to win the title that year if he'd simply performed in the playoffs the same way he did the regular season. The supporting cast excuse works fabulously for 2007, but it does not for 2010 (or 2011).

 

so if LeBron doesn't suck in Game 6, they win that and then they beat Boston in Game 7. Yes he did suck in Game 6. Then they also beat the Lakers in the finals. Was LeBron's supporting cast better than Kobe's also.

edit: had to look back at that boxscore. yes it confirms LeBron was bad but one of the stellar supporting cast, D West, was 0-for-7 with 3 free throws and an assist.

 

If Antawn Jamison is your marquee player, you stink.

 

Well, sure.

It's not like that Boston team had any notable playoff experience, or any players destined for the Hall of Fame.

I was ripping Varejao. Couple of dudes tried to say he was good. It was quite amusing.

 

Simmons pointed out this about Game 5, and it was quite telling I thought: eight of Lebron's 13 assists resulted in 3-pointer.

But keep telling yourself it was just because he played harder/better.