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Mutiny In Iraq

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Fenian_Bastard, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Yawn

    Yawn New Member

    Well then, Okie, you would have to define what is literally no good reason.

    And since I don't believe this war was ill-advised, I'm afraid we might be chasing our tails here....
     
  2. I know you don't. I'm just asking hypothetically, whether you think it's ever possible for the president to fail the troops.
     
  3. Yawn

    Yawn New Member

    Dying isn't the issue except in certain forms of failure. You'd like a clean failure, but that's impossible because in war, people die. War is hell. But history has proven it unavoidable.
     

  4. You know, 3bags, I appreciate that you're in the Army. I truly do. But don't tell me I didn't read what I read. I didn't post that to "start a fight."
    I happen to read the Army Times as often as I can. Among other things, I think they've done some hellacious reporting on the topic of the Army breaking.
    I read the whole series.
    I read all three parts.
    I stand by what I said.
    I don't believe the US Army is going to recover from the damage done to it by these morons for at least a decade. I believe there are cracks in the basic foundation of all the services. I believe this episode is symptomatic, and far from a one-off.
     
  5. War is not always unavoidable. Bay of Pigs comes to mind.
    It will always happen, yes, but you shouldn't go looking for it either.
     
  6. Yawn

    Yawn New Member

    I've said it before - the president shoved his foot in his mouth when he declared the operation a success only months after it started. The borders should have been sealed off. The Iraqi army at the lower levels should have been kept together. Mistakes have been made but the bigger failure is to quit and let the ones who did fight and die to die in complete vain.
     
  7. OK, Yawn, now you are making some sense.
    But what if this is like Vietnam, where winning simply isn't possible?
    If it comes down to that, isn't it better to get out as quickly as possible and not make anymore die in vain than to stay in honor of those who are already dead?
     
  8. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    Yeah, Yawn is all about siphoning off oil revenues and giving the Halliburton and Blackwater folks blank checks. So, really, they've done quite well for themselves. Success abounds!
     
  9. Yawn

    Yawn New Member

    Vietnam would have been winnable if we'd had the core plan of driving the Communists out of South Vietnam's way. I've talked to too many people who served who said "had we had the plan Desert Storm had and not turned it into a political war, we'd accomplished our objectives."

    Okie, we may shock some people. Imagine Yawn having a conversation with a liberal without either side engaging in name calling or insulting one's intelligence. Peace, brother.
     
  10. I'm all for reasonable discourse, Yawn.
    Fine, throw out Vietnam. What I'm saying is, I believe there is such a thing as an unwinnable war. I think if you are in a conflict that is apparently unwinnable, the honorable thing to do is get the hell out and not needlessly waste any more lives.
    That is what I see in Iraq. Obviously you see something different.
    However, that doesn't mean either of us want to see American blood shed any more than necessary. It's silly for either of us to call the other "unAmerican" or "anti-troop" or anything else, because we want the same things. We just try to go about them different ways.
     
  11. Yawn

    Yawn New Member

    Check my history...I've never said much positive about the oil bastards. I have never considered that part of the war cause. That, of and by itself (which you can't conclusively prove Ace) might fit a cause for Okie's definition of an ill-advised war, unless some country was trying to acquire all the world's oil and bankrupt the remainder. Problem with that is, we've got Canada, Russia, Alaska, the kook's land in Venezuela, Mexico, many places where supplies abound.
     
  12. Yawn

    Yawn New Member

    I'm not saying you. I also believe there's good liberals. I think there's some who hate this president so bad that if a million lives were lost tomorrow to make him look bad and therefore politically vulnerable or even finished, they'd pull the trigger. How many fit into that category? How many in here fit into that category? I won't say, but they exist.
     
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