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Murtha or Hoyer as majority leader

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Columbo, Nov 13, 2006.

  1. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Hoyer seems to have the votes, but Jesus Christ, don't these morons know that without Murtha showing the leadership he did last year and vocalizing that it was time to figure an exit strategy, they would not have taken power on Tuesday?
  2. Philosopher

    Philosopher Member

    Hoyer raised $11 million or so this cycle. That means more to most members, understandably.

    Murtha's statement last year was orchestrated by Pelosi -- she picked him to be the one to make that statement, as I understand it. And he has long been one of her strongest supporters. My sense is that either she put him up to this and is trying to eliminate Hoyer as a threat, or she doesn't care and is helping him out of loyalty. Murtha was her campaign manager when she first ran for leader.
  3. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    You can say that Pelosi put him up to it... you very well may be right.... but he was ALL by himself, getting hammered for a few weeks.

    But he put it out there, and made it OK for others to gradually chime in. That ripple became a tidal wave by Tuesday.

    They owe him.... I swear they don't sniff the Senate and maybe don't take the house without Murtha getting the ball rolling.
  4. Philosopher

    Philosopher Member

    I agree that he did them a great service. My point is just that he was carefully picked by Pelosi to make that statement -- because of his record, and because he's a very loyal supporter. That leads me to believe that she's behind this run, but I think there's no shot he'll beat Hoyer.
  5. PopeDirkBenedict

    PopeDirkBenedict Active Member

    Regardless of what happens, Pelosi is very, very, very dumb to publicly come out in favor of Murtha over Hoyer.

    If Hoyer wins, Pelosi looks weak because the caucus has voted against her choice and the honeymoon is over. Even if Murtha wins, she looks clumsy and has created a dividing line and a public enemy. If the Dems don't well in the next two years and suffer losses in the House in 2008, it adds fuel for Hoyer to take her on as Speaker. Remember that many freshmen who come from conservative districts have already come out for Hoyer. By endorsing Murtha over Hoyer, she makes it easy for columnists and political journalists to posit that she is ignoring the wishes of the very members whose election made her Madam Speaker.

    Had she kept quiet and Hoyer won, she would have had plausible deniability that she was neutral in the race and welcomed Hoyer as her partner. If she had kept quiet and Murtha won, she would have looked like a tactical genius who quietly orchestrated putting her man in office.

    If you watched the last few eps of the West Wing, Pelosi faced the same choice that Santos did, where the Speaker was either going to be an old buddy who would have worked very well with Presidente Santos or was going to be someone with his own ambitions whose top priority would have been protecting the majority, even at the expense of Santos' political success. Santos ultimately decided to stay out of the race because he had to work with the winner and if he came out for his guy and his guy lost, he would look very weak out of the gate. Pelosi made the mistake that Santos didn't.
  6. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Pope... normally, yes. I agree with all that well-put analysis.

    But these freshmen weren't voted in on their merits. Not at all. They were voted in on a purely anti-Iraq tsunami.

    And, guess who started that?

    SOMEONE had to stand for Murtha.

    Unconscionable if she hadn't.
  7. PopeDirkBenedict

    PopeDirkBenedict Active Member

    She didn't have to support Murtha publicly in a press release. Had she stayed behind the scenes and use a few phone calls to undecided Congressmen to get support for Murtha. She could have kept plausible deniability. Everyone knows that she was going to support Murtha over Hoyer; Murtha was her campaign manager when she ran against Hoyer to be the minority leader. This was a move she didn't have to make.
  8. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    I believe Murtha deserved the public acknowledgement.
  9. PopeDirkBenedict

    PopeDirkBenedict Active Member

    Would you rather have Murtha recognized or have a strong Speaker? It really is an either/or choice. She could have recognized Murtha by putting out a press release lauding both men for their part in making a Democratic majority.
  10. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    I like that she didn't waffle with something like that.

    But I understand all of what you have written. Good stuff.
  11. steveu

    steveu Well-Known Member

    And for that reason, I prefer Hoyer. Start the dominoes falling.

    All seriousness aside, I fear Murtha would be too divisive a figure when you're trying to preach working together.
  12. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    Man... Murtha is embarrassing himself on Hardball.

    The Abscam explanation holds NO water.

    He feels like a slimeball good ol boy on this show
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