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Mike Mussina: Hall of Famer?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by CD Boogie, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    It demonstrates that the voters are wrong, and also that the ballot has been pretty stacked. It doesn't demonstrate that your baseball stupidity is correct.
    JC likes this.
  2. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    He was a real shrinking violet in 1997 when he had four postseason starts of seven innings or more for the Orioles and didn't allow more than two runs in any of them.
    cranberry likes this.
  3. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    And yet because of his last name he got the nickname Moose, which didn't reflect his persona at all.
  4. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    He won 270 games (wins!), had a lifetime ERA+ of 123, and pitched more than 3,500 innings. He was one of the top 5-10 pitchers in the game for nearly 20 years.

    But we're debating the merits of his Hall of Fame worthiness based upon his . . . "persona." And the fact that shottie doesn't think he sufficiently tried to hide the fact that he attended Stanford and was an educated fucking man. Maybe he needed to grunt more.

    I love baseball fans.
    cranberry likes this.
  5. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    Mike Mussina in the playoffs: 139.2 IP had a 3.42 ERA. (23 games, 21 starts)

    Shrinks in big games (a playoff sample)
    7 IP 5 H 2 R 9 K 0 BB
    7 IP 2 H 1 R 7 K 3 BB
    7 IP 3 H 1 R 15 K 2 BB (team lost that game 2-1)
    8 IP 1 H 0 R 10 K 2 BB (team lost 1-0)
    7 IP 4 H 0 R 4 K 1 BB
    8 IP 5 H 2 R 10 K 3 BB
    7 IP 7 H 1 R 9 K 1 BB
    7 IP 7 H 2 R 7 K 1 BB

    That's 8 playoff starts with at least seven innings pitched and two or fewer runs. His record was 4-2 with 4 no-decisions
    cranberry likes this.
  6. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    It might have and Mussina essentially said so when he retired that he didn't want to put in three more years to ensure it. There is of course no guarantee but he could have gotten a two or three year contract over the next couple years to sneak across if he wanted to.
  7. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    ask dick Allen if persona plays a part. Not saying it should but of course it does
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I am sure you can cherry pick things that make him the best player in a game of Strat-O-Matic. And I am not taking anything away from Mike Mussina, when I say that for me he isn't a Hall of Famer. He was a really good pitcher for a long time. To me, he is as close as you can come to the Hall of Fame, while falling short.

    After you posted that, I wanted to make sure that what I actually watched from Mussina in the postseason really occurred. When he was with the Yankees (what I was referring to), in postseason games he started, the Yankees won 6 and lost 9. That about sums up what I was saying. Say what you want about Mussina's career. People can point to whatever contrived junk "statistics" they want, for example, and make a case for the Hall of Fame. It doesn't change the reality of who and what Mike Mussina was as a pitcher. He was really good, no matter how you slice it. I am not saying otherwise. But. ... 1) When Mike Mussina was pitching, it was never a must see, "I have to get to the ballpark" day. Not the way it was when Pedro came to town or Randy Johnson came to town or when Greg Maddux came to town. 2) In big games -- regular season or postseason -- fans of other teams were never like, "Oh shit, my team has to face Mussina." He was just NOT a big game pitcher. I watched enough of him to say that.
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I don't know why it makes me want to punch a wall when people contribute posts like this. I need to accept that some people are baseball stupid and make some kind of peace with it.
    JC likes this.
  10. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    He was an outstanding pitcher. If it wasn't for him, the Yankees never win Game 7 of the ALCS in 2003. I saw his almost perfect game. But when I had a Hall vote, it never crossed my mind I'd ever vote for him.
  11. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    It wouldn't make me nearly as angry if you didn't spend two weeks telling me that Jack Morris, a far inferior pitcher, is a Hall of Famer by virtue of his square jawline and penetrating glare.
  12. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Then you are baseball stupid, too. Open a fucking stat page for Christ's sake.
    JC likes this.
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