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Mike Mussina: Hall of Famer?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by CD Boogie, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    This guy cites some compelling numbers though some of the supporting evidence seems a little shoe-horned, i.e., 12. Mussina made only five All-Star Games, but there’s an easy explanation for that: During his career, he pitched better in the second half of the season (3.58 ERA, 7.4 K/9) than he did during the first half (3.77 ERA, 6.9 K/9).

    Those numbers aren't wildly divergent.

    Still, numbers like this -- Mussina’s K/BB ratio of 3.58 is second-best all-time, just ahead of Greg Maddux and behind only Curt Schilling -- are pretty damn impressive.

    Mussina was really, really good for many years and he will probably get in eventually. The hall won't be worse for having him, but he's not among the top 10-12 guys on the ballot this year, IMHO.

    Mike Mussina: 35 reason he belongs in the Hall of Fame
  2. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Did you pay a tax to @Dick Whitman to work this corner?

    Yes he is,
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Yes. Slam dunk. But not before Curt Schilling.
  4. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    Well Schilling is not getting in anytime soon if the voting trends hold up, so how long will Mussina have to wait?
  5. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    Mussina is top 10 on this ballot. In terms of WAR, he's third behind only Bonds and Clemens.

    He's obviously the third-best pitcher on the ballot behind Clemens and Schilling.

    If you take PEDs out of the equation, I think the top 10 is in no order -- Bonds, Clemens, Pudge, Manny, Bagwell, Raines, Mussina, Schilling, Edgar and either Vlad or Walker depending on your preference; they are close enough either is fine.

    The "sad" thing about Mussina's candidacy is that it is basically held against him that he retired on his own terms instead of limping along to add to his career numbers.
    He retired at 39 after a 20-win, 200 inning 3.39 ERA season that was a 131 ERA-plus season. If he sticks around for two or three more years to limp across the 300-win and 3,000 strikeout marks and get close to 400 innings pitched, he'd be a lot better off in the voting.

    Even without that he's 19th in strikeouts, 33rd in wins, 66th in innings pitched.
  6. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    I know more than one sports writer who used to take exception to Mussina's on-the-mound demeanor, his penchant for nibbling around the corners and bitching about the strike zone. Seemed odd given the fact Maddux was so revered for not "going after guys," but it wasn't just one or two writers. I heard it said quite a bit. Or maybe it was just the one or two guys and they just said it a lot.
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    For me, Mussina falls short.

    In the last two classes, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Greg Maddox were inducted. All of them are legit Hall of Famers to me. They are also Mussina's peers. As a Yankees fan, I watched Mussina a lot. And for me, he was not on the same level as those pitchers. He is about where I would draw my line.

    Someone brought up his lack of All Star games (and his lack of Cy Young awards?). I believe it is because Mussina played in an era with some great pitching, and he was never in that group of the very best. I think you should have to have been one of those players to be a Hall of Famer.
    heyabbott and bigpern23 like this.
  8. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Mussina was 39 that final season and he was 30 wins away from 300. It might have taken him three seasons to get that. I know he pitched well in 2008, but it was far from a sure thing that he would have held up through his age 42 season to get there.
  9. TyWebb

    TyWebb Well-Known Member

    In the 90s, he was part of a three-for-one baseball card trade that landed me Ken Griffey Jr's Upper Deck rookie card.

    On that alone, he gets in.
    Donny in his element likes this.
  10. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    Yes, slam dunk. Right before Schilling. Not a great at his best, but far steadier year in, year out. A step and a half behind most of the names Ragu listed, but that is too high a standard for the HOF for SPs.
  11. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    This is so far beyond awesome. The biggest Jack Morris cheerleader on the board thinks that Mike Mussina "falls short."

    Jack Morris
    3,824 IP, 105 ERA+

    Mike Mussina
    3,562, 123 ERA+

    They aren't even close.
    cranberry, JC and heyabbott like this.
  12. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Oh, yeah. It was a real pitcher's paradise during his prime! LOL.
    JC likes this.
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