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Michael Irvin

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by sportswriter not a junky, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. subhead

    subhead Member

    For what it's worth, PK gave odds to the candidates...

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/02/01/playoffs/index.html

    2:1 -- Art Monk, Michael Irvin. Monk and Irvin could cancel each other out, though both deserve to make it. There's going to be some sentiment in the room along the lines of "Geez, could we please get Monk in and end this annual melodrama with him?'' Troy Aikman and Jimmy Johnson are really trying to help Irvin's candidacy with some gentle reminders to voters about how hugely important Irvin was to the Cowboys' success.
     
  2. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Ray Guy won three Super Bowls with the Raiders. It's a crime that Guy, like Irvin, isn't in the HOF. Rings should account for something.
     
  3. Dignan

    Dignan Guest

    I'm with you on Ray Guy. Six or seven Pro Bowls too, and he's still considered the best punter of all-time. I'd put him in before the Pipemaker.
     
  4. Then you should lose your Hall of Fame vote. [/board hyperbolists]
     
  5. RokSki

    RokSki New Member

    Though you refer to me, Ellis, you are - once again - wrong, at least as far as your characterization of my views.

    I have said on this board before (in the thread about who should make the hall from the present 'finalist' group of candidates) that Ray Guy should be in the hall of fame. And since he is considered the best at his position, he should make it in before Irvin, because Irvin was not the best at his position.

    But that's ok, no need to get a person's opinions correct. Why do that, when you can just make another chickenshit 'strafing run.' Right, pussy (your term for my brother)?

    Oh, and by the way, while we're on the subject of non-hyperbolic statements, JDV would remove your head from your shoulders and place it where it should be, up your ass, in about 2 seconds, tough guy.

    Unbelievable what an ignorant person will say when they don't have to back up their words. But I forgot, you dropped the "I'm 6-2, you better know karate" shit after JDV mentioned he's national level in Judo and wrestling. You're a joke, Ellis - Shut your stupid piehole about things you don't know the first thing about. You're funny, and I like you, but you should stay in the shallow end, where you belong.

    Fuck, another "keyboard tough guy." Get a grip on yourself, man.

    That's the problem with so many writers. Everything seems so 'clear' and 'cut and dried' from their desk or couch. It's when the rubber meets the road of the real world that the 'ivory tower,' theoretical crap so quickly evaporates.

    Everyone is responsible for what he or she writes. There are no exceptions. But so many writers just throw all kinds of shit out there and see what sticks, and then they try to disavow the stuff that didn't stick. Bullshit. Or as they say in the legal arena, "What you say can and will be held against you."

    Remember that, "pussy."
     
  6. HoopsMcCann

    HoopsMcCann Active Member

    someone's got some serious problems
     
  7. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member

    Oh, Mike was a leader.

    Think the White House.

    A leader . . . oh, yes, indeedy.
     
  8. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    A lot of people don't believe Guy was the best at his position, Dr. Z among them.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/2000/11/09/drz_insider/

    "Why does Guy's name always come up? Because he hit the gondola once and John Madden never has let us forget it? Because he was drafted in the first round? OK, he could hang 'em high, but he was a middle-of-the-end zone punter with a poor net-yard average and a lifetime gross that many of today's punters could top. Tommy Davis of the 49ers was the greatest punter I ever saw. Check it out -- he had the second-best average in history, the top guy being Sammy Baugh, whose average is inflated because of all his quick kicks that rolled and rolled."

    As for Irvin, yes, he was the Cowboys' leader ... at the White House. On the field, not so much.
     
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    RokSki...calm down dude.... and why are we dragging Ellis and your bro's stuff on this thread? Hasn't that spread enough already?

    If you are going claim leadership qualities as part of Irvin's credentials, then you have to take the off-field stuff as part of the equation, too. Don't you think that had some negative effect on the team? Can't be good for the Cowboys that one of their leaders has all those issues.

    Irvin was not more clutch than Reed. His teams were better. I don't see Irvin as being that much of a superior candidate than Reed, if at all.

    You also can't say Reed's numbers were just a function of that offense being prolific, at least in comparison to Irvin, because the Pipemaker was part of a great offense as well.

    Monk belongs before either of them. He was the first NFL receiver ever over 900 receptions and retired as the league's all-time leader. He's got three Super Bowl rings. I understand that he wasn't flashy like Lynn Swann, but he was better. And that's coming from as biased a Steelers fanboy as there is on this site.

    And please don't get me started on the "America's Team" stuff...
     
  10. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Once again, I make the following point. Baseball and football are not the same game. If you came up big for your team on the biggest stage, it counts for more than it does in baseball. There are any number of Scott Brosius equivalents in Canton, and there should be.
    The ultimate example is Joe Namath. He's in the Hall of Fame essentially for ONE GAME.
    But it was kind of an important game.
     
  11. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    When was the last time anyone gameplanned to stop Troy Brown? He is not a dominant player. He's made some big plays, sure. But he's more of a "glue guy" than anything else. Not even close to a HOFer.

    As for baseball being a different game, well yeah, no shit. My point with the Brosius analogy is that he wasn't a guy other teams ever feared, but he came up big in some clutch spots in some big games, just like Troy. But to suggest any Patriots receiver in recent memory belongs the HOF is asinine.

    Brown has had 1,000-plus receiving yards ONCE in his career. He has two postseason TDs and none in a year when they won the Super Bowl (he had one in '97 against Miami and one in 2005 in a 28-3 drubbing of Jacksonville). He's gained 100-plus yards in only one of his 17 career postseason games and 75-plus in only four. He hasn't gained more than 39 yards in his last eight postseason games and had more than two catches in only one game during that stretch (five against San Diego this year).

    So yes, he staved off elimination with that strip against the Chargers. He's made some other big plays. He's been solid for 10 years. But solid doesn't get you into the HOF.
     
  12. Dear Psycho,

    Find any point in my post where I mentioned your name. Since you can't, please to be shutting the fuck up. The world doesn't revolve around you and your brother, you fucking attention whores.

    Love,
    Ellis Redding
     
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