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Merit pay for teachers?

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Dick Whitman, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. maberger

    maberger Member

    Mr. Whitman, i agree with your college SAT point because i believe there is a difference between standarized testing for college, and the same testing for underfunded, overcrowded public schools.

    of course we all adore the teachers who indulged us, in my case messrs. mangano and scherzer in 10th and 11th grade english. like others before them, they celebrated my desire to read, and brayed against mindless school administration. candy to kids when you're 15 years old.

    but no teacher was more important than mrs. gross in first grade, a hungarian immigrant who would not accept my sloppy handwriting and constanty harangued my parents via notes in my notebook to work with me me at home. Which of course they did; they were concerned parents doing their jobs.

    Merit pay for teachers is a disguise worn by the same people who don't want to pay their taxes -- or tax increases -- for education. who think education, like all other things wonderfully privatized, should be handed over to the private sector when THEY are done using it though others still have needs.

    frankly, instead of arguing about merit pay and standardized tests which force teachers to pass kids who should be failed, more kids should simply be failed.
     
  2. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    If an MCAT can play a large role in somebody being admitted to medical school and given a license to cut you open . . .

    . . . then I see no problem with a test playing a large role in determing whether Ms. Grundy is a good teacher and if Jughead is learning anything.
     
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    But the MCAT is a good test. It truly measures whether you have the scientific background to take on medical school curriculum.

    Public school standardized tests are often not.
     
  4. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    This is so wrong it's hard to know where to begin. But ...

    1) the 24-year-old brain and the 8-year-old brain are slightly different.

    2) the MCAT and the SAT for that matter test an individual and require that individual to take some responsibility to prepare for those tests. The school standardized tests penalize a teacher for things so beyond their control, like whether the parents speak English, whether they read to their kids or, he'll, whether they bothered to give the kid breakfast before sending him to school on test day.

    3) in many cases the students on standardized tests fill out their forms to spell dirty words or make Christmas tree designs. Those tests count against the teacher too.
     
  5. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    Also, there are studies finding that a science background isn't necessary for success in medical school. A few schools don't even require the MCAT anymore.

    http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2010/08/23/prl20823.htm
     
  6. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    1. Unions are evil

    2. Any goverment employees (i.e teachers) are lazy-ass freeloaders

    3. Cutthroat competition is great

    4. I don't want to pay taxes for anything

    5. Public education is a waste of time trying to teach stuff to stupid lazy funny-colored people


    Sounds like we've got a winner in America 2010.
     
  7. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member


    Please don't put words in people's mouths.

    Not one person on this thread has said anything remotely close to any of those statements. It's really unfair of you to portray what has been a very reasonable conversation in these terms.
     
  8. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Torre only won the manager of the year award twice in all of his year's as a Yankee manager, and one of those years he shared it.

    But Buck Showalter won it with a second place team that won 89 games & Joe Girardi won the NL award with a fourth place team that only won 78 games.

    So, I think we know when a manager outperforms regardless of his win/loss record. I would think we could apply some metrics that would evaluate teachers without relying solely on test scores.
     
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I think that this thread is too heavy on whether test scores are good at measuring teacher performance and too light on the zero-sum game within single schools or school systems.

    Basically, it sounds like people would want to grade teachers within a building on a curve. Which means it would be like any other system where the grading is on a curve: No cooperation except for strategic alliances, subtle undercutting of fellow teachers, petty jealousies, etc., etc.

    How is that good for education? Or is the idea that teachers should cooperative overblown?
     
  10. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    The most obvious answer is that like students who excel in the classroom, Jeter has succeeded because he was blessed with extraordinary ability and he was encouraged by involved parents.

    The good news is that while you need to be incredibly talented to make the major leagues, you don't have to be a super genius to be a productive member of society.

    There are plenty of successful C students. But, we need to be sure that all students are receiving the basic tools to read & write, to do basic math and to problem solve.

    We should also be able to identify the truly outstanding students and challenge them with an education on par with their abilities.
     
  11. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Has anyone seen Waiting for Superman?

    I haven't but would like to. For anyone who's seen it, would you mind giving us your thoughts on it?
     
  12. Oggiedoggie

    Oggiedoggie Well-Known Member

    It's this sort of thinking that paves a path to a world in which Florence Henderson can be beaten by a monkey on "Dancing with the Stars."
     
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