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Merit pay for teachers?

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Dick Whitman, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    So is part of it that the information is memorized & not retained, because it hasn't been learned it it's proper context.

    Or is it just that they learn facts, but not ideas? That they don't learn to learn?

    I've got to think that a better test could be devised. Not just multiple choice tests, but tests with essays or that require a student to provide context along with the answer.

    And, while Bob's joking, I'd honestly like to see what someone like Bill James or Nate Silver could come up with as it relates to evaluating teachers.

    Why can't we come up with metrics that we can use?
     
  2. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    How do you measure "inspiration?"
     
  3. Oggiedoggie

    Oggiedoggie Well-Known Member

    Well, we already have merit pay for students.

    The ones that learn the best become highly-paid engineers, doctors or lawyers.

    Those who can't make the grade end up digging ditches, flipping burgers or trying to explain to some lady why cheerleading isn't a sport.
     
  4. nmmetsfan

    nmmetsfan Active Member

    That's the better question. And the answer is partially because the more complex something is, the harder it is to quantify it.
     
  5. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I'd think you can compare the results based on where they were previously. Is there improvement?

    You could compare similar districts.

    As to the other issues, then you've either got to com up with multiple tests or find another way to evaluate the teachers and the kids. I don't think that you can just say it's too hard.

    At some point, it begins to sound like excuse making.
     
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    How do you measure "She taught me what was possible"?
     
  7. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    At least for what I've seen in my district with my kids, there is much more of an effort to engage kids in a way so they'll stop asking the oft-repeated question from back in my caveman days, "When are we ever going to use this?"

    For example, my eighth-grade son's English class has more opportunity to select their own books to read, and when there is a class assignment, it's not necessarily a "great book" but something that speaks more to their experience. One book -- whose name I can't remember -- deals with a kid who was kicked off his track team and created a big community hoo-hah because he didn't stand at attention for the Star-Spangled Banner. Then the class had discussions and papers about what they do in that situation, whether the authorities were right, etc. The idea is to get kids excited about reading challenging work, not fed a diet of eat-your-vegetables classics. The hope is that with their appetite whetted, the kids will someday expand their palette. It seems to work pretty well.

    Math is still math for the most part, although with each generation there is a change in how it's taught. The steps my kids take to solve a problem aren't the ones that I took at their age, one of the infinite reasons I am useless at helping them with their math homework. (Fortunately, their teachers encourage the kids to email with questions after hours.)
     
  8. secretariat

    secretariat Active Member

    Consult your friendly neighborhood sabermetrician.
     
  9. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I was trying to be serious. That's your answer?

    We might as well just discuss Derek Jeter's calm eyes.
     
  10. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    The teachers who inspire & "teach kids what's possible" would probably also do well in any/all other kinds of evaluations.

    No one would talk about Derek Jeter's "leadership" or "intangibles" if he was a .230 hitter.

    If kids are inspired & motivated, it should show up in a tangible way.
     
  11. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    How do you measure, say, students' creativity? Part of the debate about how we teach is a thought that the problem with the American worker is not a lack of knowledge, but a lack of ingenuity and the ability to learn (and unlearn).

    You can certainly get test scores to get a sense of a district, and, yeah, if they keep dropping, that's a huge red flag, though that may have to do with changes in the district population.

    Another problem, at least from the perspective as a parent ratings schools -- any parents who would merely use test schools to say these schools are "good" or "bad" might be doing their child a disservice. My kids are thriving and learning a lot in a district whose test scores are mostly average. But they have opportunities in extracurricular and cocurricular activities, a diverse student body, and a lack of keep-up-with-the-Joneses pressure and competition that you would get in a "better" district.

    I've come to the very unscientific conclusion that unless your school is completely toxic -- and those exist -- if you're committed to your child's education, it's going to be good no matter where he or she goes.
     
  12. maberger

    maberger Member

    when teachers teach to the test, students lose.

    merit pay is a disguise for firing older, more highly paid teachers who, like most, can only improve on their jobs with experience by developing the judgement and skills which benefit kids.

    eliminate over-bureaucritized schools and districts by firing administrators who are rarely held accountable for failing schools. recognize that teaching has a significant and uncompensated babysitting/child care function (that is, teachers are often performing some act outside of teaching) made increasingly more difficult be burgeoning class sizes -- which, ironically, decrease their abilities to teach and thus fuel anti-teacher rhetoric.
     
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