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Mark Buerhle > Jack Morris?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, May 21, 2014.

Page 4 of 17
  1. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    Fernando is up there, too. Top 10, anyway. At least from '81 thru '87.
     
    Songbird, May 21, 2014
    #37
  2. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Yeah, I don't know... Four of those guys weren't in the league until at least 1984.

    It could be Stieb.

    I know Ryan had some great years that decade, but he seemed to do it very quietly. It almost seemed like he was off the radar from 1982 until 1986 or so. He wasn't even the best pitcher on his own team for a decent chunk of the decade.
     
    Mizzougrad96, May 21, 2014
    #38
  3. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    I watched him just dismantle my beloved Giants late one season. Holy shit that guy was good...
     
    Mizzougrad96, May 21, 2014
    #39
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I already did. I'll do it again if it means that much to you. I think Jack Morris was a better pitcher in the 80s than Dave Stieb was. Stieb was great. Morris distinguished himself as a big game pitcher.

    Judging by the Hall of Fame voting each got, I'm not alone in my opinion.
     
    The Big Ragu, May 21, 2014
    #40
  5. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    In the '86 NLCS he threw two complete games (0.50 ERA) and was ready for Game 7 if the Astros could have held a 3-0 lead in the ninth inning of Game 6.

    The Mets were so dead.
     
    LongTimeListener, May 21, 2014
    #41
  6. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Scorecard of all 80s teams so far...

    Morris - 4
    Ryan - 1
    Clemens - 1

    Stieb is the runaway winner in WAR, but doesn't make the starting rotation on most of the lists.
     
    Mizzougrad96, May 21, 2014
    #42
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    He had a four or five stretch -- from around 1985 to 1990 that was great. He went from a nothing pitcher, to developing a split-fingered fastball, to being great. He won the Cy Young that year that the Astros almost beat the Mets to go to the WS.
     
    The Big Ragu, May 21, 2014
    #43
  8. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Dave Stieb, 1980-89
    GS: 331
    CG: 92
    SHO: 27
    ERA: 3.32
    IP: 2,328 2/3
    SO: 1,380

    Jack Morris, 1980-89
    GS: 332
    CG: 133
    SHO: 20
    W-L: 162-119 (.577)
    ERA: 3.66
    IP: 2,443 2/3
    SO: 1,629
     
    Dick Whitman, May 21, 2014
    #44
  9. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Pretty similar. And similarly likeable too!
     
    LongTimeListener, May 21, 2014
    #45
  10. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Most Cy Young votes of the 1980s... This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it is interesting...

    NL - Carlton
    AL - Clemens

    NL top 5
    Carlton
    Valenzuela
    Gooden
    Sutcliffe
    Scott

    AL
    Clemens
    Saberhagen
    Quisenberry
    Viola
    Stewart

    Morris had almost twice (76) as many as Stieb (39).
     
    Mizzougrad96, May 21, 2014
    #46
  11. Rainman

    Rainman Well-Known Member

    Buerhle may be something like in-between Mike Mussina and Jack Morris perhaps.

    Its odd though because Mussina will probably not get huge support right away, and he's clearly above Buerhle, and Morris probably had more support among the voters and traditionalists than Beurhle did.

    On one side, people will say Buerhle shouldn't get in as quickly as Mussina (Schilling, Smoltz) and on the other people saying that Buerhle shouldn't be in if Morris isn't in.

    Anyway, he could use basically 2 things. A big, memorable season at some point and as high a career win total as possible.
     
    Rainman, May 21, 2014
    #47
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Few sane people will ever equate Mark Buehrle's career or chances for the Hall of Fame with Jack Morris'.

    Morris was borderline, but there is an actual discussion at least. He fell just 42 votes shy of making it -- he got 67 percent of the vote. Buehrle won't get (nor does he deserve) anything near the support that Morris did.

    Morris was an opening day starter every year, started three all star games and was the WS game 1 starter three times. He won 254 games. He pitched a 10-inning shut out to win a game 7 of the World Series.
     
    The Big Ragu, May 21, 2014
    #48
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