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LZ Granderson with a better take on "Keeping it real" mentality

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Double Down, Dec 6, 2007.

  1. hondo --
    Jesus Christ.
    Slavery -- and the subsequent triumph of white supremacy -- had everything to do with the development of the country to which your forbears came.
     
  2. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Ignoring Hondo's, "Well, I didn't do anything so you should be fine" post, I do understand the psychological scarring that has occurred and that it affects the way blacks perceive themselves and others in this country.

    What I don't understand is what that scarring has to do with buying guns, etc. It seems to me that it only tangentially has anything to do with it. By that, I mean, I think poverty has more to do with that type of criminal behavior than race. There are plenty of poor white folks doing the same things in the inner cities. Now, tangentially, there are a disproportionate number of blacks and other minorities below the poverty line, so in that sense, systemic racism does contribute to problems like illegal weapons.

    I don't see how systemic racism contributes to dogfighting, though. I could be wrong, but I see that more as a geographic thing. I don't think there's much of a culture of it in my neck of the woods.
     
  3. hondo

    hondo Well-Known Member

    Sorry boys but I got enough to deal with than to feel guilty over something I wasn't involved with, nor were any of my forebearers. I spent 12 years in integrated public schools and have spent a career covering athletic teams in college and the pros that are 65-75 percent African American. You won't find one of them who say I have a predjudiced bone in my body, but neither will I be overcome by liberal guilt.

    Slavery, segregtion, integration, etc. were terrible, awful things. Discrimination still goes on, sad to say. But I'm not contributing to it and a millionaire professional athlete shouldn't be blaming his conduct on hit.
     
  4. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure anyone, least of all Granderson, stated (or even insinuated) you should feel guilty about a damn thing. It's a matter of trying to look at root causes of a problem as a means of solving it.

    Recognizing that racism exists and has an effect on certain aspects of our society is the first step toward solving certain problems. Granderson, if you read the piece, is arguing for personal responsibility. Bruhman said systemic racism is at least partly responsible for the ill behavior exhibited by many blacks in our country.

    This can be a civil discussion of some of the problems our country faces if people don't get on their high horses about what they and their ancestors have or have not done. Believe it or not, hondo, no one ever blamed the hondo clan for holding back the black man. This issue is bigger than you and your ancestors.
     
  5. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    So how exactly does 300 years of oppression that ended 100 years ago (give or take based on your definition of oppression) *specifically* hold back a young black male today? Specifically?

    Because the young black males discussed by Granderson and Whitlock are what, say, 20 years old? They were born in 1987. They've grown up around cable tv, Gameboy, rap music, video games. That's what all american boys grow up with today, regardless of race. NWA is ancient history, let alone Richard Nixon, the Watts riots, Hiroshima, the Civil War, etc.

    I'd love to hear what a black guy from SportsJournalists.com thinks about it, not one of our white members, who has read studies, but, like me, has never felt it. You hear it from enough black writers about the 300 years of oppression. I am sure they aren't lying. But I never hear the specifics. How specifically does that affect a 20 year-old black guy in 2007?
     
  6. Stoney

    Stoney Well-Known Member

    Wonder when ESPN will realize that Granderson might be the best young writer they have on that site. Most of his stuff gets missed because they keep him buried on page 2, and instead they seem have anointed Jemele (master of the simplistic strawmen) as the one chosen to lead when racial issues arise. I find Granderson much more authentic and thoughtful.
     
  7. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    blacks are much a victim of racism today as they ever have been. It's a different kind of racism, but they've been identified as the "other," nonetheless. not since the era of slavery have african-americans been so uniformly catagorized by white America. whether celebrated or loathed, blacks are nevertheless a race apart.

    the danger in this, of course, comes the day when the hip hop culture is no longer cute or glorified or interesting to the ruling class of white america. that day is slowly coming. what i fear in the aftermath is a marginalization of black america that eventually boils over into something more violent.

    anybody who thinks race relations are improving are delusional. I mean it: delusional. They're worsening yearly.
     
  8. henryhenry

    henryhenry Member

    how can race relations be worse?

    obama is a legit candidate for president. a pew study showed that only 11 percent of americans have a problem with a black candidate, compared to 45 percent for a muslim candidate.

    this is not to say race relations are what they should be. but compared to 20 years ago, 30 years, c'mon...

    oprah is a phenomenon that could not have happened 20 or 30 years ago - her audience is mainstream, white and black

    race is a red herring

    the real issue is class - nobody wants to talk about it - the monied class uses race to divide and conquer the working class - that's how you get poor southern whites voting with wall street - and too dumb to see how wall street keeps them poor
     
  9. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    oprah is a phenomenon that could not have happened 20 or 30 years ago - her audience is mainstream, white and black

    Oprah *is* a phenomenon that happened 20 years ago. She's had the #1 Nielsen rated talk show in America for 21 years.
     
  10. People said this in '65. All of it. Then they turned on the fire hoses and unleashed the dogs and redlined the neighborhoods etc. etc. It's never any one person's fault so nobody's ever to blame.
     
  11. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    What is acceptable in one community is not in the other. Didn't used to be this way, but until the ideals come closer together the gap between the two will continue to grow.

    I had a grad school professor tell the class once that the greatest tool the upper class uses to keep the lower class down is the welfare system.

    A hungry man is an angry man.
     
  12. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    Check out what's going on in the Florence area of Los Angeles today. Certain latinos systematically driving blacks out of neighborhoods thru murder, intimidation, etc. Makes people with hoses look like pikers. If there have been any gains in white-black relations (dubious assumption, perhaps), in the second largest city in the country, they've been offset by terrible Latin-Black relations. There's a race war going on, it's just not publicized.

    I'm pretty involved with my kids' middle school, which on the face of the school's racial mix, should be a utopia. It's the same old same old. Black kids over there. White kids over there. Latinos over here. Asians over there. Administrators trying everything under the sun to even things out.

    I don't see anything changing.
     
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