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List of Costs under Bush/McCain

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Lugnuts, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    I'll tell you about prescription pricing...I'be had a head/chest cold for a week. Went to the doc today.. a touch of bronchitis.
    The following scrips:

    A weeks' worth of cough medicine with codeine $178.99 (Tussionex Pennkine...240 ml)
    14 amoxicillin tabs $48.99 (generic)

    My co-pay with insurance = $30
     
  2. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member


    And we know the insurances companies aren't running a charity, so you know they make out in the end. Drug companies wind up charging obscene numbers for prescrip drugs -- and in this country, they get the $$$, one way or another.
     
  3. EStreetJoe

    EStreetJoe Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't it be easier to give Israel the intelligence, the planes and the bombs and just let them do it for us?
     
  4. Yawn

    Yawn New Member

    Yeah, but the good news is that Obama will stop that spending and then tax the hell out of us to recover the costs. Cheers!
     
  5. spnited

    spnited Active Member


    Yes, because balancing a budget and not giving tax breaks to rich fuck Republicans is such a terrible thing.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I consider all the things you listed costs, except number 4, Luggie. The reduction in taxes means that my money and your money stayed in each of our pockets. Why is that a cost? When your taxes are lowered, it isn't like you are being given a favor. It's YOUR money. Not taking your money is no great favor. People forget this.

    The insanity of the tax cuts, though, is that they came at the same time government spending was being increased. So I'd change number 4 to "running large deficits," not tax cuts. Tax cuts done the right way are a great thing. Even deficits, in and of themselves, aren't bad things when they are managed, but when there is run away spending without any plan, it's akin to maxing out your credit card on a joy ride. And in essence that is what we have been doing. And that is dumb fiscal management.

    Typically tax cuts act as a stimulus for the economy. The extra money left out there is used for investment and that creates jobs. Our economy hummed along and unemployment remained low for the first part of Bush's term, but it was factors having nothing to do with his tax cuts. The intended economic stimulus of his tax cuts was not seen for two main reasons: first, there are diminishing returns from continually cutting taxes. When tax rates are exorbitant and you cut rates, it does have a strong, immediate effect on investment and consumer spending. But tax rates were not historically onerous compared to the last 30 years when Bush cut taxes so it wasn't a huge stimulus. Second, business saw all the spending on the horizon because Bush didn't mask it very well, and they took a very cautious view. So they were very conservative about new investment--waiting for a recession to hit--despite the boon from the tax cuts. This quote from Stephen Moore, who is a fiscal conservative and president of the Club for Growth pretty much sums it up: "Bush is a 'big-government' Republican, and there's no longer even the pretense that he's for smaller government." It's so true. He's all rhetoric and it's all bullshit.

    The tax cuts aren't the problem if that is the case. It's the spending. Cut taxes and kill half the government, and tax cuts mean more of your money stays in your pocket and filters its way into the economy where it can spur growth. That could be a great thing.

    What we have, though, is a Bush plan in which since the tax cuts, we're looking at about $3 trillion less in revenues at the same time we are spending like mad on all kinds of insane and wasteful things. It's fiscal management beyond belief. No private lender would touch a PERSON like that -- we're already fairly close to the debtor's death spiral; when borrowers get in so far over their heads that they borrow money just to cover their interest payments. They have to do this to tread water, but they have no way of paying down the principal. As the pattern plays itself out, bankruptcy becomes inevitable.

    We're probably a few years -- and some economic hardship along the way -- from the point that we have to do one of two things or both: increase our tax revenues to keep our heads above water and/or drastically reduce the level of spending. This will prolong the economic hardship. Higher taxes will stagnate the economy further, and government spending is a monetary policy (often a short-sighted one) that can help spur the economy when it is stagnating. Don't count on either, because we are running out of borrowing options.

    It's why anyone should be wary of two types of politicians (the only two types that exist): those promising to cut taxes and make the current levels permanent and those promising all kinds of new costly programs.

    But people don't want to hear that, so the same old bullshit is passing as debate.
     
  7. HejiraHenry

    HejiraHenry Well-Known Member

    John F. Kennedy's inaugural address:

    "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
    "This much we pledge—and more."


    Nothing I can think of could better reflect the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the moden "progressive" movement than the distance between the JFK's vow and the post that kicked off this thread.
     
  8. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    And what part of the original post has a damn thing to do with "the survival and and the success of liberty?"
     
  9. chester

    chester Member

    Completely fucking up a nation -- Priceless
     
  10. RedSmithClone

    RedSmithClone Active Member

    See I love this. They all love McCain until he gets the nomination, then try and do whatever they can to bring a guy down who for much of his time in congress has been spent working with them on a number of issues.

    HH you are right on the money here.

    JFK is rolling in his grave right now. The guy would be considered a Moderate Conservative today, and so is John McCain.

    I was proud to walk into the voting cubicle and fill in his circle during the Massachusetts Primary and I will be even prouder to do so in November.
    Sometimes the cost of freedom, the cost of knowing what is right and wrong and the cost of security far outweights the burden or struggles that come as a result.
     
  11. How can you claim Kennedy would be anywhere near a conservative? The GOP has shifted so far to the right that the conservatives won't claim McCain.
    It's your guys that have moved, not ours.
     
  12. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    May I point out we have paid NO financial price for the Iraq War. Our descendants have. Every nickel of going-on-a-trillion spent has been paid from borrowing. If a President proposes a tax increase to pay the bill, let's have no bitching from you freedom enthusiasts.
     
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