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Ladies only please. Have you been harassed on the job?

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by chazp, Jun 28, 2007.

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Have you been sexually harassed on the job during your journalism career?

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. wickedwritah

    wickedwritah Guest

    So that garden variety harassment you speak of ... is it a matter of people being idiots and not thinking first before they say/do something? Is there intent there?
     
  2. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Shit like this is why my interactions with females at my office is very limited and doesn't ever go much further than hello. I do not ever compliment a woman for looking nice or even if she is wearing something nice or just got her hair done, I don't say a word about it, even though I've always been led to believe that women enjoy getting compliments.

    I won't even tell a woman I liked her story or she had a good idea unless it is via e-mail and it is very brief and to the point (it is also documented what I actually wrote). And if there is a woman around I don't engage in conversations with some of my friends who I work with for fear of saying something that might be, ahem, overheard, interpreted as being lude or rude and turned into a full blown federal issue.

    The climate in offices because of assholes like those at ESPN as well as many others -- as well as the politically correct among us -- has made the workplace a scary place because every male is one wrong remark -- innocent or not -- from being shipped out and labeled a pig and frankly I don't need to deal with that bullshit.

    The most ridiculous/saddest shit I ever witnessed was a supervisor who would make it a point to come over and rest her boobs on the shoulders of a new employee who obviously lifted weights and was a good looking, strong young mostly impressionable guy. She'd rub his neck, run her fingers through his hair, comment on his clothing, sit on the edge of his desk and pick food off his plate and even some times feed it to him, all the while laughing and carrying on and he of course was nervously eating it up. Of course, when we had a work function and he showed up with a girlfriend, the entire dynamics of the two changed even though she was there with her husband.

    The boss became vindicative with the kid, made his life miserable and of course he left wondering what the hell happened.

    This isn't the only case of the harrassment happening the other way around that I've witnessed and I'd be willing to be the only reason it is so much more prevelant in our business is because the bosses and "stars" (in other words the ones who hold the power) are primarily men.

    Women are just as capable and equally as likely to abuse their power.
     
  3. 21

    21 Well-Known Member

    On the other hand...if the guy wasn't her friend, let's say he was a jerk who made rude comments to women all over the office, it wouldn't be corny, it would be revolting.

    Look, there has to be common sense, and the understanding that there will always be silliness and attraction and interaction between men and women....just kill me now if we have to stop enjoying that.

    But a man who fears complimenting a woman on her work is just ridiculous....a woman who takes offense when a male colleague offers to share a cab to the ballpark should just get out of the business.
     
  4. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Sorry 21, but you better start writing your will because today's politically correct climate has made it almost impossible for men and women to have "silliness and attraction" between them in the work place. Every male knows he is one poor choice of words -- and the wrong person over hearing him -- away from being fried.

    Not saying that's not how it should be anyway, that's just how it is.
     
  5. 21

    21 Well-Known Member

    I understand your point, but you only hear about those cases....most of the time, decent people with common sense understand how to talk to each other without being idiotic and hurtful.

    In most of these situations, though, there's an 'I can't take it any more!' moment that seems to come out of nowhere, when actually, it's been building for too long.

    Let's use zeke's earlier post as an example, giving him the benefit of the doubt that he playing 'Stupid Mysogyny for $100, Alex' :


    I promise you, if he said that in a crowd of guys, muffled into his sleeve or behind his hand, he'd get a laugh. There might be a woman there, a good pal, one of the guys, she hears it too. She knows it's a joke....but it still makes her ill. Does she complain? Probably not, if she's picking her battles. So now it's officially okay because no one objected. The guys know they can make those jokes in front of her. At some point, it gets to be too much....she boils over at some seemingly small incident, makes a fuss....and all the guys are stunned. Now she's a bitch who blew up over a meaningless 'joke.'
     
  6. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member


    I think you're either significantly overstating the "politically correct climate," very paranoid, don't know how to talk to women or work in one fucked up building. Perhaps one or all of the above.

    Just like your writing, it's a matter of knowing your audience. There are definitely women in my office around whom I'll watch my mouth, make sure I don't even swear, etc. There are others whom I've worked with who I've flirted with (and who reciprocated), joked with, etc. After working here for a month or two, it became obvious who I could joke with, make crude comments in front of (these were the women who I hung out with outside of work as well), etc.

    Sometimes social skills are all it takes to avoid creating a hostile workplace or making the women we work with uncomfortable. And I sure as hell have never worried about complimenting someone's work. That's just asinine.

    And just to address 21's point that maybe someone isn't comfortable with the jokes, but doesn't say anything ... again, it's a matter of knowing your audience. If a girl in your office is dishing out crude jokes, it's a pretty safe bet she's not offended by them. If she's not the type who drops crude jokes, your best bet is to avoid saying any in front of her. Guys should err on the side of caution, no doubt, but I don't think it needs to be as bad as Zagoshe makes it sound. Not engaging women in conversation for fear of harassment suits? If you can't get through a simple conversation with a woman without getting hit up with a lawsuit, well ....
     
  7. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Believe me 21, I agree with you and frankly a comment like that in the company of a female would make my skin crawl and if it was said about someone I like and I respect I probably wouldn't laugh about it. And I've even personally intervened with a co-worker who I thought was way out of line in some of the things he was saying and doing around an intern, who happened to be a very attractive college female. He saw it as "innocent joking" and swore she was OK with it then I asked him if he was willing to bet his career on it. He understood but it didn't change much about his approach to her and I could see exactly what you are saying -- that mostly she was in a try and laugh it off and pick your battles mode.

    It is a shame of how things have come about, and despite my reputation on here for being abrasive, I honestly really do place most of the blame on males for bringing it to this point because males have abused their power over females in the workplace for years and years and years and I wouldn't put up with a lot of the shit I see some females having to put up with, either.

    But I think the one point I was trying to make is I'm starting to think, based on some things I've witnessed in the past few years is that males are mostly to blame because they've had far more opportunity to hold the power.
     
  8. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    OK, I overstated it a little -- I obviously interact some with female employees, but it is always about work. And I make sure I keep a very healthy distance between us when we talk. And believe it or not, it sort of makes my skin crawl when females engage in crude, foul-mouthed talk, so I want to avoid them as well because any conversations like that, which take an off color turn, have a potential to blow up in your face.

    This is a stupid story but it illustrates my point.

    In college I worked for a moving company during the summers as my summer job. We were moving this one woman who clearly liked to have sex. How do we know this? Well, we found all kinds of sex toys, porno mag's, dildo's, panties and whatnot all over her room while we were packing her up and rather than be embarrassed about it she and some of the movers were going back and forth with the predictable banter "um, what do you want me to do with this ma'am?" -- "Oh, I figured a man like you would know how to use it..." that kind of crap.

    To make a long story short, it got to lunch time and as we're walking out, the woman asked something like "where do you want to eat?" of course, one of the other college-aged summer workers turns around and said "At the Y".

    After a morning of back and forth with these guys, this woman got pissed about that, called the office and the kid nearly got fired. It was only after all of us vouched for the fact that this woman was making racy comments all morning that he was able to stick around, and even then he was pulled off the road and into the warehouse for two weeks.

    Maybe I am a little on the paranoid side, but you never know what turn any of these conversations could take or when they will blow up in your face and I do know that I'd rather error on the side of caution.
     
  9. cougargirl

    cougargirl Active Member

    Can't say I've ever been sexually harassed directly on the job - at nearly six feet tall, people tend not to go out of their way to cause any kind of stir. However, I've certainly been around other reporters who have made suggestive comments and usually say something along the lines of them such as, "Now that's not at all professional, is it?"
     
  10. Born to Run

    Born to Run Member

    OK, this is sexual harassment, but also funny.
    A naive young female sports writer goes into a locker room after a game and is interviewing the star football player, who happens to be naked. She nervously asks him to put some clothes on before she finishes the interview.
    So he does.
    His socks.
     
  11. 21

    21 Well-Known Member

    And a sharp young woman might say, 'Thank you, those are the ugliest feet I've ever seen in my life.'
     
  12. Born to Run

    Born to Run Member

    21:
    I wish she had.
    And, for the record, I think the guy was a real jerk to do that. Especially since it was pretty clear she wasn't going to look above the feet.
     
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