Kornheiser on Eli Manning

Bradshaw had years, playing with all that talent, when he was average at best.

212-210 td-interception ratio
51.9 completion percentage

Bradshaw=overrated.

 

Bradshaw was in the right place at the right time.

 

Fine...except that Starbaugh and Bradshaw both were capable of running for their lives, too. Both were outstanding athletes who could run.

I'm not sure what Bradshaw would have done had he spent his entire career on terrible teams. But are you trying to say Manning was better just because he overcame playing with shit to be decent?

And no, I don't know if Manning would have played as well as Roethlisberger did in 2005. He has developed more slowly, and even now, Roethlisberger is better.

I can't see Manning ever being so much better than Roethlisberger that it was worth what the Giants gave up. I would take Manning right now over Rivers, who has had one good season and an up-and-down start to 2007, but would the Giants have taken Rivers if they didn't make that deal?

 

I've been hearing that since before Archie retired, and regularly since. We might be hearing it MORE now since there are more media outlets, but it definitely didn't start when Peyton arrived.

 

i guess it shouldn't surprise me that eli is so heavily scrutinized, but folks better start paying attention: he's very good and still getting better. in this microwave era, nobody ever seems to want to give players a chance to grow. 8) 8) 8)

 

For Archie Manning to survive and get the kudos from his playing peers while playing for the Saints was phenomenal and he is entitled to all the praise he receives. When he played, the only player approaching Pro Bowl status on offense was Danny Abramowicz (sp?); the forerunner to Wayne Chrebet. In those days, anything over 50% was considered good. I think Manning played on the 'Aints team too, you remember the paper bags over the heads, maybe not? They stunk.

When he came out, it was Plunkett, Manning and Pastorini. Plunkett was beaten up in NE and found redemption in Oakland. Pastorini excelled for a little while in Houston then a couple of decent years in Oakland. Manning never got the chance.

Staubach was great and definitely better than Archie. Bradshaw? He won but the Steelers won with Joe Gilliam too (but not in the Super Bowl).

 

The biggest joke was seeing Strahan on ESPN after the game talk about how Eli's body language has improved, he doesn't hang his head after incompletions or interceptions. Not the game I saw last night. He looked pissed off every time he walked to the sideline. Eli's good, but his status is elevated by where he plays and the fact that the QB position is pretty week throughout the league. He's never going to be his brother or his dad, but that's still pretty good.

 

I see it the other way. His status is downgraded by the New York media being able to nitpick every flaw, real or perceived. No denying he'll never be as good as his brother (who, with another ring or two likely will be considered the greatest who ever played), but when all is said and done, he'll be head and shoulders above his father.

As for the body language and him being pissed off, until the last year or so, Peyton was the same way, and he'll still throw a fit when he thinks a receiver screwed up (like Dan Marino with more talent and a ring).

 

Sorry for the threadjack, but that last arguement is too silly to let go.

Gilliam played in only 20 games in his career, not all of them starts, spread out over four years. He played in one playoff game, in mop-up duty in 1974.

Every big game the Steelers won in the 1970s came with Bradshaw at quarterback. Given that and the extremely small sample size of games in which Gilliam got significant time, the argument that "the Steelers won with Gilliam, too" is ridiculous.

Obviously this is subjective. Manning and Bradshaw were both incredibly gifted quarterbacks. They both had great arms and mobility. Manning was probably faster, but Bradshaw was a stronger runner. Bradshaw had the good fortune to play with better teams, but his performance was a big part of why they were better.

There are Steelers in the Hall of Fame who don't belong (Swann), but Bradshaw isn't one of them.

 

Well, if Peyton throws a fit at one of his WRs, there's no "thinks" about it. The receiver DID screw up.

And saying Eli benefited from Peyton could be accurate, but it's also an argument with an Easy Button. It's convenient to view it that way, but several QBs have been picked No. 1 that did not deserve it (or may prove not to deserve it). What did Tim Couch really do in college that was above and beyond what Eli Manning did? Both were picked No. 1, but only Manning gets the "helped by Peyton" caveat.

 

I don't think Eli is that bad.

I just think New York is a horrible place for him.

He played well in big SEC games, but the open lockerroom/New York media combo has been hard for a guy who was covered by few beat reporters in college.

Then again, maybe he just needs to be reunited with David Cutcliffe, who also fooled the NFL into thinking Shuler and Tee Martin were professional quarterbacks.