Kobe's Lakers v. LeBron's Cavs

A few things....

For someone to have Shaq the 10th -- or worse -- best center of all time is just plain ignorant. I'm not saying he's the best ever, or even in the top 3, but 10th or lower? No way. I refuse to believe that.

Chuck, you're argument that LeBron is the best 22 year old ever is crazy. Your argument against Magic is that Magic had better talent around him. So what? You can't make a list of best-evers with a bunch of what-ifs. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. You have to judge that on facts and the facts are...Magic had two NBA titles at 22, LeBron has zero (currently).

Hakeem intrigues me. I don't think I ever gave him the credit he deserved for a remarkable career. He won titles, MVPs (I think, some correct me if I'm wrong) and was one of the smartest centers to ever play. However, he wasn't as dominant or as feared as Shaq, so I can't put him above O'Neal. In that debate, though, I could easily change my mind tomorrow.

I hate hyperbole just as much as the next guy, but if LeBron can somehow win the title this year -- or even make a dent in the Finals against the Spurs, that may give him the confidence he needs to take his game to the next level. The Jordan-Magic-Bird level. Watching LeBron take apart the Pistons the other night was fascinating. They were freightened of him. Scared to death.

 

dumbass. pure dumbass, plain and simple. kareem never was a leader. kareem never taught anyone jack shit. you don't even know what you are talking about, yet you make these bold statements. you are one of two things: either 14 years old or a fanboy.

 

Not saying LeBron is better, but that's not the argument to make to claim one's better than the other here.

No one could seriously expect LeBron to match Magic's NBA feats by age 22 given the sorry state of the Cavs (17-65) compared to a Lakers team (47-35) that was one piece away from being ready to win championships. To penalize LeBron for the state of the team when he arrived -- i.e. citing that he has no NBA titles -- is foolish, especially given how far he's brought them in four seasons.

 

i think you aren't giving parrish enough credit.

 

Actually, the stats say otherwise. It's been pointed out on other threads, so, I don't feel like looking up the statistics again, but the lower amount Kobe scores, the worse record the Lakers have. And, their record when he's scoring huge (50+) is far and away above .500. Look it up. It's out there.

Kobe won consistently when surrounded with talent. They haven't won consistently of late because he can't count on Odom, Walton and Co. to be there night in and night out.

 

The top 10 centers of my lifetime (which, again, is a lot longer than most of your lifetimes)

Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Malone
Olajuwon
Bob Lanier
Nate Thurmond
Willis Reed
Shaq
Unseld

And Chuck, my young friend, Magic never played with the greatest scorer of all time. He did play with the NBA's career scoring leader (Kareem), but he did not play with the greatest scorer (in more ways than one?) of all-time, Wilt.

There also is one other measure of greatness that has not been addressed:
The greatest WINNERS of all-time, guys who simply could will their teams to win in many different ways ... something Kobe and LeBron have not come close to doing yet.

There is no doubt Jordan is No. 1 and Russell is second, followed probably by Magic and Bird.

 

My lifetime overlaps yours. I got to watch Lanier & Thurmond and they weren't better than Reed & Unseld.

The problem with Shaq is that his skill set is not varied. He's a one dimensional player. Check out Unseld's career playoff numbers for rebounding. The man was unstoppable low, especially for a player his size. Shaq never faced tough guys like Reed, Lanier, Wes, Thurmond, Malone, Cowens, Parrish. Shaq has played in a period of finesse centers.

As they say, in the land of the blind, a 1 eyed man is king.

 

Lanier, Thurmond, Reed, Unseld can go in any order you want ... my mistake in that list is Unseld should be ahead of Shaq.

I covered the NBA in the 70s.. Willis is one of my all-time favorite players and people.
Reed-Unseld matchups were brutally physical and great to watch.
I loved Lanier's offensive game and I think Thurmond was one of the truly great (and underrated) defensive centers ever.

Put those four in any order and I won't argue.

 

Cool, I loved watching those guys play. Watching Shaq is no where near as enjoyable.