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Kansas-Kansas State women's game

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by JayFarrar, Feb 18, 2007.

  1. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    MM, you're an average woman at Old Dominion. Are you a Monarch, or are you a Lady Monarch?

    Would Ashley Judd refer to herself Wildcat or a Lady Wildcat?

    Would Hillary Clinton refer to herself Democrat or a Lady Democrat?
  2. JayFarrar

    JayFarrar Well-Known Member

    Don't feel guilty.
    This has been beaten to death, but it is up to the school as to what they are called.
    If the school makes a change from the Indians to the Fighting Trees, then they are the Fighting Trees. If the men's team is the Wonder Boys, do you quit calling them that because it is gender specific? Just start calling them the Wonders.
    Or is yet another case of the little ol' girl who can't do anything for herself and needs a big, strong man to let her know no one is going to her basketball team "Lady" anymore.
    I know of some papers that made the switch and dropped gender specific mascots and the readers had a revolution. They were incensed that the paper made that decision and scrapped, for some schools, decades worth of tradition.
    If the school has a problem with it, then change to what they are using. If they don't, you shouldn't care. Be more worried about getting the score right and all the names spelled correctly.
  3. Mystery_Meat

    Mystery_Meat Guest

    Sadly, that's not far off the mark.

    Neither. I'm a student at Old Dominion, not a Monarch. However, if I play intercollegiate athletics for Old Dominion, I am most assuredly a Lady Monarch because that's how the school chooses to designate their women's sports teams. And their coaches, including some very strident feminists, support it.

    It's an inarguable point. If the school calls their women's sports the Lady Monarchs, then that's their name whether I approve or not, and I don't have the right to call them anything else, just like I don't have the right to add "Lady" as a modifier to a nickname that doesn't have it. I had an SE who did that, no matter whether they wanted it or not. It drove me crazy, because I knew he was doing it to be condesending.

    It did provide a funny (in retrospect) moment when I covered a school whose women's teams are called the Trojanettes. You guessed it, he tried to change the name to "Lady Trojanettes." Lucky for me I was in the office and explained to him that the "-ette" denoted the female variant of the nickname and needed no further and unsanctioned modification. Oddly enough, a few years ago they changed their nickname to the Lady Trojans.

    Immaterial. I don't care what they WOULD do, I care what they ARE doing. That's what we're here for, to report what's happening, not what we think should be happening. That's the first do no harm of journalism, or at least it should be.

    Odd that you bring up Hillary Clinton. I remember hearing somewhere that she's considering going by Hillary Rodham if she wins the presidency. Not sure whether it's legit or the fevered dreams of Michael Savage. Anyhow, do you think reporters should be allowed to change her name to Hillary Clinton or Hillary Rodham Clinton if they don't approve of the name Hillary Rodham? Because in essence that's what you're advocating now.
  4. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    See, that's an irrelevant argument. We're not talking about Indians to Fighting Trees. This would be more akin to Eagles vs. Golden Eagles, in which case, both names encompass an entire student body, so no problems with either one. But adding "lady" seems redundant the moment you make it clear you're covering a women's basketball game ... like we didn't already know they were ladies.

    Just a pet peeve of mine, sorry I can't let it go. Marian Washington sold me on this argument years ago.
  5. JayFarrar

    JayFarrar Well-Known Member

    So, just curious, if you were working in news, how would you handle the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts?
    Would it be the Scouts are doing their annual cookie drive or the Girl Scouts?
    And if a coach had a problem and the school wouldn't address it, then you got a story, but after that, sticking with their copyrighted name is the way to go.
  6. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    I'm with Oz. No "Lady" just to differentiate.

    If the school's official nickname is gender-neutral, then that's what it is. It's not "Monarchs" and "Lady Monarchs." The school's nickname is "Volunteers."

    HOWEVER ...

    There are exceptions. You cannot call a team "Raiders" when they've got "Raiderettes" on their uniforms. Just like you cannot call the team "Vols" when everything they are known by is "Lady Vols." You shouldn't editorialize for the sake of editorializing. (On a related note, there's a high school in Georgia where the boys teams are the Indians and the girls are the ... Squaws. :-\ I shit you not.)

    But if the uniforms and everything they are known by is gender-neutral, then you do NOT add "Lady" as a modifier for the sake of differentiating. That's when I have a problem with it.
  7. Mystery_Meat

    Mystery_Meat Guest

    Which is pretty much my point. ODU goes by Monarchs and Lady Monarchs for their teams. UNC does not, I believe, use Tar Heels and Lady Tar Heels. I cover almost exclusively high schools in my job, and none of them call their female teams the Lady Whatevers or the Whateverettes (the John Villareal High female teams and cheerleaders, respectively). As such, I've yet to use female modifiers for the school nicknames. If an AD tells me that the official nickname for the girls' teams are Lady Eagles or Lady Bulldogs, then that's what I'm using. Otherwise, I'm not.
  8. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    I gotcha, MM.

    It's just that there are a lot of people -- and papers -- that just throw a "Lady" in there without thinking about it, let alone asking the coach/AD. In fact, my hometown paper inexplicably started doing it again in their roundups ... we got rid of that years ago when I was there. I was stunned.
  9. Mystery_Meat

    Mystery_Meat Guest

    No doubt. I would admit to getting a chuckle out of the former Randolph-Macon Woman's College (soon to be Randolph College), which is going coed this year, starting men's sports programs and calling them the Gentlemen WildCats. They won't be, but still ...
  10. subhead

    subhead Member

    Would "Bitches" be acceptable on second reference for Lady Bulldogs?
  11. kingcreole

    kingcreole Active Member

    Plainsmen and Lady Plainsmen? Yup, I've seen it.
  12. Chef

    Chef Active Member

    I'll take Jackrabbits and Lady Jackrabbits for 200, Alex.
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