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John Olerud: Hall of Famer?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    There's no such thing as a "non-valuable" defensive position. Anyone who'd reason that there is hasn't played the game of baseball at a very high level. Being a Gold Glove-winning first baseman takes just as much work and skill as being a Gold Glove-winning shortstop. It's a different type of skill and a different type of player, but it's skill nonetheless.

    Olerud isn't a Hall of Famer, but I just wanted to point out that it's ludicrous to call first base a "non-valuable" defensive position.
     
  2. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    So let's take into consideration that in his 14 full seasons he averaged 16 GIDP per year.

    So let's give him 16 extra outs per year (232 for his career), add them to his at bats and see what that drops his batting average to.
     
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    LTL, I think you are misstating the A's philosophy. It is not that walks equal hits. Certainly Beane knew the same thing that I am stating here about the value of walks vs. the value of hits.

    What Beane thought was that OBP, i.e. walks, was an undervalued commodity in the marketplace. With a limited budget to spend, he was taking advantage of an inefficiency in the market to try to make the most of his payroll.
     
  4. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I said that.
     
  5. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I meant comparatively.
     
  6. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    That's what he and Michael Lewis want you to believe. And yet Billy traded away Carlos Gonzalez, who wasn't his kind of player and who made $406,000 last year, so he could have a half-season of Matt Holliday.
     
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I definitely think Michael Lewis is sincere. He wouldn't have given a shit about the story otherwise.
     
  8. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    I guess Pete Rose (1,566 walks) should cash those in for 975 more hits.
     
  9. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    I don't care how you meant it, it's wrong. There's no such thing as a "non-valuable" defensive position, comparatively or independently.
     
  10. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    Ask the Mets infielders of the late 90s how defensively non-valuable Olerud was. They set a record for fewest errors by an infield one year primarily because of the number of bounced, wide, high, etc. throws Olerud saved.

    Ask Jeter, A-Rod and Cano how "defensively non-valuable' Mark Teixiera is.
     
  11. dooley_womack1

    dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

    The point someone made higher up is what's germane here. If you do that to everyone's walks, the goalpost for Fame-worth batting average moves. Olerud was the woodworkiest of woodwork. TSGITR aside, no way is he anywhere near worthy of the Hall.
     
  12. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    That gives him a great .348 batting average but a pedestrian .348 OBP. The upside is that it improves his slugging percentage, which is horrible as it stands.

    There are tradeoffs with every guy. The guys who are helped are the ones who can retain a meaty OBP but improve their batting average and SLG to something we find more palatable from our Pavlovian baseball training.
     
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