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Joe Crede > Brooks Robinson

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Rhody31, Jul 10, 2006.

  1. Turnbull AC's

    Turnbull AC's Member

    Mike Lowell has Crede beat in pretty much every offensive and defensive statistical category this season except homers and RBI (although Lowell has more doubles).
  2. 85bears

    85bears Member

    Defensive stats are completely irrelevant.
  3. danny_whitten

    danny_whitten Member

    I don't know where Crede belongs on either or any list, but he should've been voted MVP of the World Series last year. The guy played his ass off.
  4. Orange Hat Bobcat

    Orange Hat Bobcat Active Member

    Welcome to the board, Joe. Nice to have you here. [/sarcasm]
  5. Gold

    Gold Active Member

    I come here today to discuss Brooks Robinson and Hawk Harrelson.

    Brooks Robinson redefined how third base was played and how we consider things today. Get a highlight tape of the 1970 World Series and you will see what he could do on defense. Mike Schmidt played the position well, but I think Michael Jack would acknowledge that he wasn't as good as Brooks Robinson.

    I know somebody is going to look it up on baseball reference and see that Brooks Robinson had a pretty low batting average for a Hall of Famer. (without looking, I would say something like .267) Two points on this. First, he played the peak of his career in a time when batting averages were very low overall. After 1962, the strike zone was raised from the chest to the top of the shoulders, and lowered to the bottom of the knees. And umpires called it. The strike zone stayed that way until the 1969 season - in 1968, Carl Yastrezemski (sp? - somebody correct me if I'm wrong) won the American League batting title with an average of .301 (I know I'm right about that number). In second place was Danny Cater, who hit .290. Obviously, baseball would have become a lot less popular if that kept up, and it was changed for the 1969 season.

    Second, Memorial Stadium wasn't a hitter-friendly park. It was 309 if you pulled it down the line, but it went to 360 very quickly. It was built to 450 in centerfield, and the fences were bought in to 410 but the power alleys were still deep. The Orioles had talented pitchers in the early 70s, but they were helped by the park. The Orioles won three straight pennants from 1969 to 1971, and Earl Weaver said the most important thing he did as manager was to cut the grass real low - he had Robinson and Mark Belanger, a great defensive shortstop, who could field anything which was hit, while his hitters would be able to get balls through the infield on the short grass.

    Also, Brooks Robinson was regarded as a good clutch hitter. Maybe stat people say there is no such thing, but his contemporaries and teammates considered him as such.

    Why would Hawk Harrelson forget about Brooks Robinson? Well, Hawk Harrelson was a longball hitter with few other skills - think Dave Kingman without the longevity, with lower numbers, and less integrity. He was somebody who had a couple good seasons in Fenway Park. In an era when players had no negotiating power, he somehow managed to threaten to quit baseball when he was with the Kansas City A's and get himself traded to the Red Sox in 1967 in time to get into a World Series. In 1969, the Red Sox decided to trade him to Cleveland and Hawk decided that he would retire and become a professional golfer - he was a decent golfer but nobody noticed him on the PGA leaderboard. Anyway, Bowie Kuhn stepped in and Hawk managed to go to Cleveland. A friend of mine said he would remember that Bowie Kuhn would say he couldn't imagine baseball without Hawk Harrelson. Two years later, Harrelson was out of baseball.

    Hawk Harrelson, you an idiot and a BS artist.
  6. Orange Hat Bobcat

    Orange Hat Bobcat Active Member

    Right you are, Gold. Robinson was a .267 career hitter (yes, I looked it up on Baseball Reference), whose highest single-season averages were .303 and .317; he batted .284 or better seven times in 18 full seasons. He also averaged 15 home runs and 76 RBI per 162 games, and finished with a career .723 OPS. Without comparing that to anybody else, those are decent numbers.
  7. Hammer Pants

    Hammer Pants Active Member

    Good to know us Cubs fans aren't the only baseball people who think Hawk is a moron and the biggest homer in the game. In his mind, he probably does think Crede is better than Robinson. I'm a patient person, but I simply can't listen to him call a game. I can't. He's that bad.
  8. rascalface

    rascalface Member

    this from the people that build statues of harry caray.

    and, hey, thanks for keeping harry's comiskey park tradition during the seventh-inning stretch alive.
  9. Almost_Famous

    Almost_Famous Active Member

    FH - Fucking hilarious.
    Just brilliant.
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