Jimmy Carter and Hamas

JG, Not sure if you expect me to defend some of Israel's worst tactics, which have been deplorable. I won't. They have done some attrocious things. But when you judge Israel, you definitely have to look at them through the prism of history, the fact that for years they were surrounded by enemies hell-bent on their destruction, and which kept attacking, and that they have a population today that lives under constant fear of dupes being sent into public places with explosives strapped onto them -- at the behest of these sadistic Hamas fucks. Israel very often poors gasoline on the fire, so my statement above is not meant to give them a free pass, but they are really caught between a rock and a hard place as long as men like this exist, whose ONLY purpose is to see to Israel's destruction (let's be realistic about it). To put it in perspective, if Canada started launching missiles at our border towns and started sending 17-year-olds on suicide missions in which it was their goal to take out as many Americans as possible (whether these missions are the result of hopeless despair or not), started crossing the border to kidnap Americans (not just Hamas, but Hizbollah), etc., how would you want to the U.S. to react? Perhaps not as heavy-handed as the Israeli's often act (in which their retaliations often seem indiscriminate). But i can't blame them for protecting their interests, making a statement that they will not allow such barbarism to stand, standing up for themselves in the face of such hostility, and fighting back.

Maybe you disagree. And I understand if others do too. The Israelis are not saints. But I strongly get the sense that if their enemies had ever shown a willingness to negotiate in good faith, the Israelis are actually EAGER to put an end to the hostilities. Can the same be said about the Palestinians, as long as they choose Hamas to lead their interests? When Anwar Sadat came to the table in good faith, something was able to get done, and even though there is no great love of Judaism in Egypt, they actually recently reopened a very old Synagogue that had been sacred to Egypt's once thriving Jewish population. It's kind of proof that the Israeli's (and any Arab interest not hell-bent on Israel's destruction) willingness to find peace is greater than most of its enemies. Agree to disagree if you must. But it's the way I have always seen it.

 

You can't get peace when every time you try to engage your enemy in talk, they make unreasonable demands as a precondition for peace, which in effect makes the statement that they aren't interested in peace. Israel may do some destructive things to the process, with the new settlements, the continued fencing off of the camps, etc. But as far as I know -- and someone can correct me if I am wrong -- it has never had any preconditions to talk, other than that the violence must end first. Beyond that, at least with rhetoric, they have shown a willingness to discuss anything.

Hamas on the other hand, is an organization that dupes naive, frustrated teenagers into strapping bombs on themselves and blowing up innocent people in public places (I'm still waiting for one of these so-called "leaders" to blow himself up). We SHOULDN'T be talking to people like that. If Hamas is serious about peace, it needs to show more of a seriousness of purpose about it -- getting rid of the destructive rhetoric, renouncing the gratuitous violence -- before they should be engaged. You can't talk to certain people, and attempts to do so just makes them think they have the upper hand -- as if their deplorable tactics are having an effect and are "wearing down the enemy." It emboldens them to act even more unreasonable, rather than forging a path toward peace. Sometimes you either have to avoid a bully or punch him in the nose. Talking to him, not only gets you nowhere, it gets you an ass kicking. Carter should have learned a great deal about this during his presidency. The fact that his ideas about diplomacy haven't changed is scary.

 

You're right. No arguments. I guess I just make a distinction between building housing in an area the Palestinians claim ... and launching rocket attacks that kill people. Israel definitely stokes the flames. I suspect it is with a purpose, but one I don't get. I also have always gotten the feeling, they'd walk away from those settlements to achieve a lasting peace. As far as I know, they have never said they are off the table. But I could be very wrong.

 

By the way, my take could be very, very wrong. I know there are always two sides to animosity like this... What I do feel pretty strongly about is that Jimmy Carter has no place being involved against the advice of just about everyone with a stake in it.

 

This is kind of my point, OTD. And you affirm it with the rest of your post. There is a reason why such a wide range of poeple refuse to talk to them. They haven't earned the right to it. You don't negotiate with people who kill innocents and have shown absolutely no willingness to give an inch with their rhetoric.

I'd have NO ONE talk to Hamas. Not until it shows that it wants peace and it is willing to come to the table in good faith. It has not done that -- which is why all those people you mentioned wisely refuse to dignify their barbaric tactics by showing the dignity of meeting with them.