Jeff Bagwell - HOF?

I guess I should clarify....

Based on the standard previously established by casty and his mafia, Bagwell deserves to be in.

They are borderline numbers, but that is when MVP and a ROY, or postseason greatness has to be factored in.

And, count me as among those who believe that, yes, some people are first-ballot HOF, and some deserve to be in the Hall, but not with that distinction.

 

I don't care if he fell short of 500 HR... He was the best at his position in the NL for almost a decade...

He's in...

 

His 1994 season was just sick. In 110 games, he hits .368 (2nd in league), drives in 116 (1st), had an outstanding OPB .451 (1st), led the league in slugging (.750), runs (104), total bases (300), was second in hits, second in HRs, first in extra base hits, first in runs created.

If he doesn't break a bone in his hand (and, of course, if the player's union doesn't strike) we might be talking about his 1994 season as one of the best by a player in the last 50 years.

We'll never know, like many stars of his era, if he did it clean for so many years. And that's too bad. I'm not sure you can say simply because he broke down late in his career, it meant he juiced. In fact, you could argue the opposite. If Bonds doesn't use roids for the last five years of his career, maybe his knee is so bad, he retires at 38. Bagwell had a statistical decline that was consistent with his age. I suppose I'm tempted to believe him, although Bill Rhoden would probably argue that makes me a racist.

I think he'll get in. He was a decent guy who played his entire career for one team, was great with the glove, and manage to avoid rumors that he juiced, unlike virtually 90 percent of his contemporary sluggers. It would not be an absolute travesty if he didn't make the cut, but I think he'll get in.

 

Jeff Bagwell deserves to be in his sport's Hall of Fame as much as Buff Bagwell does in a Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame.

In other words, no.

 

I haven't formed a full opinion on Bagwell.

But here's a decent Neyer column on Bagwell as a Hall of Famer from last March (just don't read the part where he's saying how much better Brad Wilkerson will do than Soriano; Neyer hates Soriano).

 

Mr Concern,

Buff was the stuff. You can't mention Jeff Bagwell in the same breath as Marcus Buff Daddy.

YHS, etc

 

As of now, this appears to be a case where I need more time to study and determine: A) whether I think he'll make it, or B) whether or not I will vote for him. Honestly, I don't know.

 

Casty- I'm with you.

On one hand he has over 3,000 combined RBI and runs which is normally a sure ticket to the Hall of Fame. He is also arguably the greatest player in Astros history - so not voting for him could be a slap at Houston.

On the other hand - arguments can be made that he was not as good a player as Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Don Mattingly or Fred McGriff (not saying the arguments are correct - just that they could be made).

 

This is an example of what Casty says about having to wait five years in order to get some perspective.

I think he will get in eventually. In his favor - the fact that he is probably the best player who played his entire career as a Houston Astro (I know he had some games with the Red Sox, but he is an Astro) and the fact that he had a lot of home runs while having a really good average. The home run total is more impressive because he played most of his career in the Astrodome. I think in five years, it will look more impressive because you won't see too many players match what he has done. He is a better offensive player than Fred McGriff or Don Mattingly, IMO. As far as a comparison with McGwire, Bagwell was an all-around outstanding hitter. I would rate this with Don Sutton - very good for a long time.

Chris L and other people who believe Jim Rice has gotten shortchanged by not being in the Hall of Fame - I would suggest this exercise. Look up Jim Rice's stats, compare them to Dave Parker, and explain to me why Jim Rice gets 60 percent votes for the Hall of Fame and Dave Parker's percentage is in the 20s and 30s.

 

I'm concerned that many, many players will hit the 450 HR mark by 2011.

I'm also concerned people will conveniently forget how humongous a barn the Astrodome was, and that Bagwell played there much at all.

He also won a Gold Glove playing on the concrete in the Eighth Wonder.

 

A five-year wait is going to hurt him... Someone mentioned Dawson and Rice, who should both be in, IMO...

McGriff is an interesting one... I'd say he's borderline, but I would consider Bagwell a much better player than McGriff...

 

If the wait hurts Bagwell, I think Biggio's impending eligibility a few years after that will boost him right back up. And if Bagwell isn't in already, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the voters put them in together (depending on who else is on the ballot.) Houston gets its day in the sun, and for good reason.

Personally, I think they're both locks. Both average-tier HOFers (sorry, but the Hall is what it is; we're not going to start arbitrarily elevating the standards now.) But both locks.