Israel v. Gaza, again

Easy for me to say?
Netanyahu thinks the president is a naive imbecile.
I would usually get behind that, but not behind someone who does not seek a settled peace - and makes all pretensions that he does.

 

As it did with Republicans Netanyahu relationship cratered with Obama due to his arrogance.
Remember back in 2012 when Obama refused a visit from Netanyahu?

 

I will say it's nice of Israel to warn people before it attacks.
Hamas does not offer the same niceties.

 

Israel's defense minister admits to deliberately bombing civilians:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4540419,00.html

 

How does the quote support your accusation? Care to support it? He said no such thing.

 

"Terrorists' houses" means terrorists' families. Those are civilians.

 

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/06/netanyahu_loathes_obama_says_herzog.html

 

I'm curious what exactly in that photo indicates that building "was harboring a weapons cache..." That story makes it sound like the photo itself provides the evidence, yet all my untrained eyes see is a building that looks about the same as the other building surrounding it.

I've learned to be skeptical of this type of "proof" after the WMD shit show we put on for the world to try to justify invading Iraq. I hope the Israelis had a lot more evidence than whatever this photo supposedly shows before they decided to blow up a building surrounded on three sides by civilian housing.

 

What most Americans don't understand about fighting in much of the Middle East is the way that tribalism affects things. When you're talking about Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, in most cases the opposition has no real loyalty to or ties to those countries as political entities.

Their primary loyalties are to their blood family and to their tribe, then to their religious sect and ethnic cousins, and then, maybe, to some degree, to the country as a whole. Their trust runs in the same way - family and tribe they will pretty much trust, and then it goes downhill from there.

It makes governing and political deal making problematical as hell. OTOH, when you start threatening their family and tribe, you get their attention right damned fast. The problem is that many of the major actors here are pretty hardened and if threats are not backed up by harsh force they lose all meaning.

It's how Saddam Hussein kept a lid on Iraq, with its very diverse population. Anyone with a mind to rebel knew that the response would be heavy handed as hell and not just hit him but be spread over the people he loved and trusted most. It works quite well as a counter threat to some of the worst excesses of the region.

Unfortunately, anything resembling this approach used by a First World government brings all sorts of criticism, legal and diplomatic repercussions, and condemnation in the press. Israel, because they are stuck in the middle of a bunch of bad actors, is quite aware of it and sometimes uses it to good effect.

I'm not excusing Israel for its excesses or for the continuing establishing of settlements that are basically nothing but legalized land grabs. They bring some of what happens upon themselves... but never forget, as they don't, that they are surrounded by people who have repeatedly threatened to butcher every Jew in Israel, and have repeatedly tried to overrun then.

I'm damned glad that I have no part in trying to settle that mess, because it is self perpetuating.

 

I do too... but the Israelis have a pretty good intelligence service, and I have no problem whatsoever with believing that Hamas would store weapons in residential areas, mosques, or hospitals in a deliberate effort to forestall air strikes on their supplies and meeting/training areas. In many cases the local residents will support the "Freedom Fighters" and try to protect and conceal them. Others know very well that having such near them is a threat to their lives and their families. Sometimes this is how Israel finds out - people want the missles gone from nearby before the bombers come and blow the whole neighborhood to flinders.

 

I don't have any trouble believing that of Hamas, either. And if it's true, that's extremely messed up. Israel hasn't presented anything approaching legitimate proof, though.

I haven't seen it on any site that appears unbiased, but there are rumors that Israel is bombing water lines and sewage plants as well. That's a lot harder to defend.

 

I don't defend it. I submit that the intent is to make life nearby so intolerable that the residents decide that the local freedom fighters are unwelcome and should move on down the road. Often that's the only way to break an insurgence, to find ways to induce the local population to stop any support.

It's a harsh military decision, and its very hard cheese for the locals, especially the women and children who had no choice in the matter.

I suspect that the attitude of the Israeli military is "You quit shooting rockets at random into Israel, and we'll quit busting up your infrastructure." The problem is that there is little decent infrastructure there to start with, and hammering it sets the locals back years. Hamas has no real problem with it, as they are not invested. It's not *their* neighborhood, they sure as hell won't set up missle batteries and supply dumps near their own homes. Israel's reaction assures another generation of hatred and resentment, of PO'd teenagers for Hamas to recruit from.