Islamists taking over Iraq

Once again, the country with the most to lose in Iraq isn't us, it's neighbor Iran. And I expect increasingly overt action in support of their fellow Shia. I don't think U.S. drone attacks killing another two dozen "number three man in the (fill in name here)" would do much.

 

LOL. OK.

And, I think he believed that. We weren't supposed to be into "nation building" building at the time.

But, fuck, we needed to guard the national museum. Remember when that was the biggest problem we has in Iraq?

Paul Bremmer and the State Department were supposed to help Iraq govern themselves.

 

Don't forget Turkey.

 

Turkey actually has better relations with the Iraqi Kurds than you might think. Not lovey-dovey, but they do business.

 

Iraq can't truly govern itself until it sorts out its very deeply ingrained sectarian disputes. Just because Iraqis were distracted by fighting us for a decade doesn't mean those other tensions disappeared.

We're either for self-determination or we're not. Self-determination, but only on OUR terms, should not be an option.

 

Amazing how fast this is all breaking down. Only a couple days ago we learn these ISES Sunni fundamentalists had swept in, seized Mosul and Tikrit, and started moving toward Baghdad. Today we learn that Kurds have seized Kirkuk (which, as YF noted, they've always claimed and ain't ever voluntarily giving back). With our established puppet govt now barely holding onto Baghdad by a thread and it appears poor chances of survival unless we step in to help them again. Meanwhile, you've still got the majority of the population being shiites who aren't gonna easily submit to fundamentalist Sunni rule if Baghdad does fall. And with Iran, Turkey and Syria peering over the whole thing and soon trying to influence it in opposing directions.

Looks like a prescription for one monster unholy mess, perhaps years and years of civil war. Exactly the type of chaotic lawless environment where groups like Al Qaeda can build bases and most thrive. So this is the end result we spent over a trillion dollars and lost nearly 5000 lives for?

 

We have no cards to play in this mess and should stay the hell out of it. Let the Sunni and Shia fight the war they've been itching to fight for years.

 

Yep.

Mission accomplished.

 

I'm stunned this thread is still standing.

 

I said it once on one of the political threads from long ago. It was a mistake to try to get rid of Saddam just because we thought he was evil, which of course, he actually was. Because other countries and terror organizations might think that we were evil for whatever cultural differences, and that it would be OK to try to topple our president and government. And that we did not have the moral authority to be outraged if it did happen, due to our past.

 

Regardless of how you feel about the war overall, the world (and Iraq) is better off without Saddam Hussein.

However, one would be remiss to not mention that the most successful action of the entire war, the troop surge, was never going to foster reconciliation, no matter how much politicians hoped it would.

The surge is the main reason the war is over, but its blunt force over diplomacy is a big reason why these divides remain.

 

In the grander philosophical sense, sure. The fewer crazy despotic killers, the better.

In the pragmatic my-own-self-interest sense, I'm not so sure. Say what you want about Saddam but he kept the fundamental Muslim crazy element in check, and he was a staunch enemy of Iran.