1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is the Debt Ceiling Unconstitutional?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by YankeeFan, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    We are seeing that right now with Libya.
     
  2. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Hell, Lincoln during the Civil War and Roosevelt in 1940-1941 before Pearl Harbor did plenty of things that almost surely were outright unconstitutional. History has absolved them.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Forget the constitution. If you want to control your debt, don't pass laws that create debt.

    The "debt ceiling" is silly and contrived and it is the kind of thing a child with no impulse control would come up with as a ruse to keep gorging himself on candy, while protesting that he's controlling himself.
     
  4. suburbia

    suburbia Active Member

    Do you remember when Republicans threatened to use the "nuclear option" to end the filibuster in an effort to get Bush II's judicial nominees through?
     
  5. Stitch

    Stitch Active Member

    To continue the thread on presidents ignorning the Constitution when it comes to military action, here's a timeline. It's similar to a list in one of my graduate school textbooks.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations
     
  6. Brooklyn Bridge

    Brooklyn Bridge Well-Known Member

    Sort of like what the Republican congress did seven times for the previous administration with nary a discouraging word.
     
  7. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    The debt ceiling was, until this time, a pro forma vote allowing the minority to call the majority bad names because of the debt with no consequences. I predict that one way or another, this attempt to actually use the limit as a policy weapon will end the ceiling quite soon. You'd better believe Republicans won't let Democrats pull the same stunt when the case is reversed.
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It's sad that this always turns into an attempt at a Republicans versus Democrats argument.

    They are both responsible for our debt. They both pass loads of legislation that hands out monetary favors to the special interests that put them in power and keeps them in power by feeding their campaign war chests.

    They both have been doing that for a long time. It's the American political system.

    And the "debt ceiling" is still stupid and contrived as long as they can have one and at the same time keep passing legislation that runs up debt, which they do even as this "debate" rages.

    I watched part of Obama's news conference today. It is hard to believe that it was the same guy who came into office, spearheaded several bills that amounted to more than a trillion dollars worth of special interest spending before anyone could catch their breath, and then put out a 10-year budget projection his first year that had the national debt more than doubling by 2015 and equaling our GDP by 2020 (and that was using his optimistic growth projections).
     
  9. Stitch

    Stitch Active Member

    If John Hoeven was serious about the debt, he'd tell his fellow North Dakotans that they shound't expect them for help passing flood aid bills.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Of course, because it is disaster relief legislation that has put our country $14.5 trillion into debt.
     
  11. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Ragu, as has been shown an almost infinite number of times, the primary structural cause of the increase in the debt is the Bush tax cuts. The primary cause is the decline in revenues due to the recession Allow them to expire (which Obama could have done in 2010 and can be legitimately criticized for not doing), the deficit starts to magically shrink to a manageable percentage of GDP. The idea the stimulus package caused the debt increase is, to be blunt, hooey.
    Also, ALL government spending is "special interest" spending. Somebody gets it and somebody doesn't and the body that does has a special interest in keeping it. The question is always which special interest gets how much.
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Mike, I am not sure what the infinite number of times are. These are the facts as I know them:

    During the 1970s our public debt as a percentage of GDP was somewhere in the range of 25 to 30 percent. During the 1980s, it rose to about 40 percent of GDP. During the 1990s, it ranged from 40 to 50 percent of GDP. During the Bush presidency, it rose from 35 percent of GDP to 40 percent of GDP. By the end of 2010 it was 62 percent of GDP and given that our outstanding debt right now is about $14.3 trillion and our gross domestic product was $14.66 trillion last year, our debt is now a staggering 95 percent + of our GDP.

    When you are talking about a spiraling debt problem, you can argue that it is too much spending, raising too little revenue or a combination of the two. It doesn't really matter.

    The "primary structural cause" of our problems is not attributable to one thing. Our national debt under Bush increased from $5.7 trillion in 2001 to $10.7 trillion at the end of his presidency. Under president Obama it has gone from $10.7 trillion to $14.3 trillion in just two years.

    At the rate we are spending (you need to spend a great deal to increase your public debt that much), no amount of taxation could make up the difference.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page