Is Notre Dame football dead?

OK, but here are some schools they have been consistently losing to: (1) Stanford; (2) Navy; (3) Michigan; (4) North Carolina

None of those strike me as academic lightweights.

 

Actually, Bob, it's a bit more than that. It's a cranky alum base that DESPERATELY wants to believe (or more importantly, have the world believe) that ND is the "Midwestern Ivy." That little fallacy is far more important than a consistently successful football program......cause they can always fall back on how wonderful they USED to be..

 

Now that list is a good belly laugh, Dick ... Stanford and Navy yes ... But Michigan's standards for athletes are as low as any other football factory -- check the old Ann Arbor story on "general studies" and what it means. As for North Carolina, you may want to read up on what's currently happening with the academic side of the football program. It might cost Butch Davis his job, is all.

 

New course soon to be offered at Tennessee: Showering Science 101 ?

 

Wow, yeah, total brain cramp on the fact that both Michigan and UNC have been in the news the last few years for cutting academic corners. I stand corrected.

Is Notre Dame really a "Midwest Ivy"-caliber school? It doesn't strike me as on the same level as, say, Northwestern or Michigan or Washington University or the University of Chicago. And, for the record, I'm not talking about Michigan's athletes, but the overall university (including research, etc., etc.).

 

No, of COURSE they're not. Not even close. They do, however, insist on trying to ACT like one. Thus, the (self inflicted) limitations on their recruiting.....and the resulting impact on the quality of their football teams.

 

Michigan is not an academic lightweight, but it's football team is an academic joke. Jim Harbaugh called them out a few years ago for not giving a damn about its athlete's education. Their players do not end up with marketable degrees. They are forced to enroll in joke majors and then their black players graduate at a rate significantly lower than white athletes (58% of whites football graduate, 36% of black football players graduate). It would be a joke if it wasn't so pathetic.

I went through the first 14 names on the roster (up through Jeremy Gallon) on their website. Eight Kinesiology majors, one general studies major, four freshman and one real major (a former walkon). Michigan forces its athletes into joke majors and then leaves them with nothing at the end of their eligibility. It's a disgrace that a good academic school like Michigan allows the exploitation of black athletes by its athletic department.

 

I think they offer an education that is as good as any of the schools you mentioned, even if they are a little harder to get into.

ND alumni are also very successful. Ivy league alum are very high profile because they move in and out of high level government positions and serve on the Supreme Court and the like, but ND alum do very well.

And, while it's not like it used to be, ND still offers the most Catholic environment of any Catholic college.

It's not for everyone, but for some, it's a perfect mixture of Catholic values, rigorous & stimulating educational environment, and big time sports.

But, as Bob points out, that probably appeals to fewer & fewer big time athletic prospects.

 

I remember watching both games. Isn't that enough? And I still have that edition of the Toledo Blade among my saved clippings as a sports-obessed kid. (It's quite yellow now).

I'm sure my memory of being nine years old will fade with time. But I'm only 26. I still quite well remember the 1991 Cleveland Indians, the Browns still being in Cleveland and childhood memories. They'll be gone in a few years, I'm sure. I'll let you know when I'm old.

But your concern and bizarre questioning of me is noted.

 

For me, it comes down to this. Notre Dame (football wise) is sort of like the spoiled rich kid that wants to play with the other kids, but wants to make up it's own rules. When the other kids (even ones as smart & rich as ND) don't want to play by their rules, they storm around, pout & whine about how no one else understands how wonderful they (and their set of rules) are.

Add additional academic requirements, that few others do. Be an independent & limit your bowl,revenue sharing & football scheduling options. Insist on hoarding your own TV dollars. Refuse to upgrade to a Jumbotron. Refuse to take transfer students for football (although it seems ok for all of your other sports). Make your players live on campus. Be pr*cks about giving return scheduling dates (and thus end up with Western Michigan and Tulsa on your schedule). Keep pulling scholarship offers to verbal commits who have the audacity to take other visits. Continue to pretend you don't redshirt, because it would be HORRIBLE for a busy undergrad to take more than 4 years to graduate. Holy crap, they've only JUST added a training table this year, and are only in their 3rd year (kicking and screaming) of allowing January enrollees.

Not one thing "wrong" with any of these standards / rules they set for themselves. In fact, some are admirable.They just should stop with the indignation when no one else wants to play by the same rules.....

 

I really don't see anything admirable in any of this. Just a lot of stubborn stupidity.

And you're absolutely correct, ND is the little snot-nosed rich kid that everyone not related to him despises, and not because everyone is jealous, as his family thinks.

 

Because college football coaches are egomaniacs who already think - nay, are sure - they can win there, and any tiny doubt they had was washed away by that salary offer.