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Is Mark Buehrle a Hall of Famer

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Gehrig, Sep 25, 2014.


Is Mark Buehrle a Hall of Famer

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
  2. No

    21 vote(s)
  1. Gehrig

    Gehrig Active Member

    Buehrle pitched six scoreless innings last night to notch his 14th straight 200 inning season. He's in some great company as one of 7 pitchers in baseball history to do this.

    Cy Young 19 straight
    Warren Spahn 17
    Gaylord Perry 15
    Don Sutton 15
    Christy Mathewson 14
    Phil Niekro 14
    Greg Maddux 14

    His WAR is at 58.5 and WAA 29.6.

    He's one win shy away from 200 career wins.

    I say no. Buehrle falls into a group that includes pitchers like Andy Pettitte or Tommy John. Above average pitchers who pitched well for a long time. The pitching equivalent of a Tony Perez, as it were. A few years ago, Buehrle had the opportunity to improve his game and, therefore his chances, but his inability to escape the aforementioned description, makes him one of those "compiler" types rather than a truly great pitcher. (I don't equate longevity with "greatness".)

    It also does not help that the higher peak/prime guys with shorter careers (Johana Santana, Roy Oswalt, etc.) aren't likely to receive substantial support anytime soon. Ironically, that could create a gap for a Buehrle-type player to sneak in, particularly if he could wind up with 280 wins or so by the time everything is said and done, but we'll have to see if he can do it.

    So far the 21st century pitchers are looking to be a repeat of the 1980's - a decade with some high peaks/short careers and the opposite, but few who were outstanding in both aspects.
  2. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    We had a long thread on this a few months ago. The answer now is "no." But he's a lot closer than he was 12 months ago. If he can get to 240-250 wins, he's got a shot, I think.

    He's such an interesting case, because his peripheral numbers aren't very good. He keeps runners from scoring because he's consistently been the best pitcher in baseball, or one of the best, at keeping runners from stealing on him, and at picking them off when they think about it.
  3. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    Buerhle will be 36 on opening day 2015. Unless he's a clone of Jamie Moyer, he'll have a hard time getting to 230 wins, let alone 240, 250 or 280. And if he does hang around to get to 250 or so, no matter how effective he still is, he'll get slapped with the dreaded "compiler" label that's almost the kiss of death for a HOF candidacy.
  4. Sea Bass

    Sea Bass Well-Known Member

    Ok Gehrig, I'll bite. What "opportunity to improve his game" did Buehrle have a few years ago?
  5. Versatile

    Versatile Active Member

    Mark Buerhle is not even retired. How could he be in already?

    As for his credentials, is he even above CC Sabathia?
  6. 3_Octave_Fart

    3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

    I think there's something to be said for getting 9,000 guys out, almost all in the American League. Just not necessarily a HoF argument.
  7. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I want to hear this one, too, though I think we can both figure it out.
  8. 3_Octave_Fart

    3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

  9. Gehrig

    Gehrig Active Member

    Simply meant that his career trajectory has been relatively flat. Had he been better during his physical prime from 27-32, let's say, I'd look at him differently. He's a workhorse with a long career. That's not meant to water down how good he's been, but I'm merely making the point his career arc isn't as high in the middle, while the ends are higher than most. People don't choose their talent, obviously. Just saying "if he'd been a little better".
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    There are lots of guys who aren't Hall of Famers about whom you could say, "If he had been a little better." It's what separates those who are in from those who aren't.

    There is a lot of good you can say about Buehrle, even if (at least imo) he isn't a hall of famer. He is a junk-balling left hander. How many of those come and go? You have to be absolutely perfect to pull that off in the major leagues, and with how good the hitters are, it is nearly impossible to be perfect. You can pitch perfectly for 98 percent of the game, and you will inevitably get killed by the two or three mistakes you made. When you throw 94 mph, your mistakes aren't guaranteed to get clobbered.

    Buehrle is a pretty remarkable pitcher. He doesn't doesn't overpower or strike out too many hitters. He actually gives up a lot of hits -- which demonstrates that not all hits are equal, because he limits the damage by doing so many little things well.

    There used to be more pitchers like him in baseball -- the "crafty" lefty who has great control, keeps runners close, knows how to get a groundball when he needs it. For him to have succeeded to the degree that he has, in this age of baseball, is remarkable. I don't think he is a hall of famer, but he deserves a ton of credit.
    sgreenwell likes this.
  11. 3_Octave_Fart

    3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

    The era in which he played makes Buehrle's 3,000-plus innings more impressive.
    Also played for mostly lousy teams.
  12. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    No, he didn't.

    He played on three division winners in Chicago, and a World Series champion.

    The Sox's win totals during his years there, starting in 2000:

    2000: 95
    2001: 83
    2002: 81
    2003: 86
    2004: 83
    2005: 99
    2006: 90
    2007: 72
    2008: 89
    2009: 79
    2010: 88
    2011: 79
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