Is Lance Armstrong the biggest fraud in the history of sports?

See, and that's the part I would have the biggest problem with. Everything he has done about prevention and the movement he led completely washes away if it's the damn reason he got sick in the first place.

 

I think Armstrong is the runaway winner here...

Kirby Puckett would make my list. He seemed to be one of those guys who had quite a few people fooled into thinking he was a good guy.

My only defense of Bonds is that he was pretty damn good before he started using. There's a long list of guys who were nothing before they started juicing. Sammy Sosa jumps to mind.

 

Google Frankie and Betsy Andreu.

According to them, PEDs preceded cancer.

 

How do you know those baseball players were clean at any point during their careers? Just because Barry Bonds was skinny when he first came up doesn't mean he wasn't on something then. Skinny guys have been busted for steroids, too.

I honestly don't know when Rodriguez, Bonds and Clemens started using. Neither do you, so let's not put things in evidence that aren't there.

Also, do we actually know that Armstrong used before he got cancer? Azrael, I'll check that out, but I still think a lot of assumptions are being made here.

 

I wouldn't call it inspirational, necessarily, his beating the disease. Hopeful, sure, but the inspiring part was everything he achieved after beating it. That's the part people would look up to, point to - "He had cancer once, and now he's a champion!"

I feel like I've gotten sidetracked. All I meant when I first posted was that there is nothing Tiger Woods could be found guilty of doing at this point that would be more disappointing to more people than what Lance Armstrong has been concluded guilty of doing.

Everything else is secondary to that.

 

With Bonds it's pretty clear -- at least if you believe "Game of Shadows," and I have yet to see a reason not to believe it -- that he started the PEDs after seeing the love Bonds and Sosa got in 1998. Based on that timeline, he was already a three-time MVP (should have been four) before he ever started.

 

where do o.j. and joe p. slide into this discussion? ??? ??? ???

 

Exactly. I wonder when McGwire started using. I'd be surprised if he had more than a few clean seasons. Since he had Canseco as a teammate from Day 1, I'm guessing it wasn't too long.

 

I would argue that OJ wasn't a fraud when he was an athlete.

Paterno? That's a tough one... I think he definitely qualifies as a fraud.

 

Paterno was mentioned upthread. OJ? Not sure he was a 'fraud,' so much as a 'murderer.'

 

Bonds was also a dick before he started juicing. I don't think anybody ever thought he was a good guy at any point in his career.

One of my favorite quotes about him came from Jeff Kent an unnamed Giant who was asked to name the most amazing thing he'd ever see Bonds do.

"I once saw him act halfway decent towards an out of town writer."

 

Being a dick doesn't make you a fraud. I doubt there are too many people on this planet who would claim Bonds is a nice guy. I think you could have made that statement when he was at Arizona State. I think you could make that statement when he was a rookie or at any point in his career.

If everybody thinks you're the greatest guy in the world and you're beating up women, that's a little different. Puckett was certainly not a fraud as a player, but his public persona was a fraud.