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Irish cash famine threatens euro, world markets

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TrooperBari, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    The Irish seem pretty close to accepting loans from the EU and possibly the U.K.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11782356
     
  2. Double J

    Double J Active Member

    Just being able to use "wanker" in a headline is epic win.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  3. hondo

    hondo Well-Known Member

    That's because they all moved to New York and became cops or bartenders.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  4. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but they moved because of the famine.

    Think about it, the population dropped 25% in just a couple of years and dropped 50% in 50 years.

    It's still off by 25% from its high.
     
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I tried shorting the Euro earlier this year b/c there is a catastrophe waiting to happen. I even made a little money (by luck -- it was momentum, not fundamentals). But it is impossible to time. This stuff is nothing new. Ireland has been on radars for a while. As is Spain, Portugal, Italy, of course Greece.

    What is going to be interesting is that they can buy time, but there will be no political will (or money) to keep lending to these countries that are in trouble. At that point, there will be a country that defaults on its sovereign debt. And then we will find out just what kind of exposure some of the European banks have to the debt of these troubled countries. I think it is an enormous amount. No one knows yet, though, and won't unless there is a meltdown. But you will see someone like a Societie Generale leading the way on this, the way Lehman Brothers led the way here on the CDO meltdown. And then a host of banks could start falling like dominoes. And the Europeans are not going to pony up cash to keep them in business, because they all have different agendas.

    The big problem with the Euro is that you have a single currency, but dozens of different cultures and relationships with money/debt. That gets tested in tough times. Not when things are going well. You really have one strong EU country, Germany (there is a big drop off in GDP to France, which is next largest), which is being asked -- and will continue to be asked -- to give up a lot to boost up some of these weaker countries. And they are just not going to do it.

    One other thing that amazes me is how the markets follow the shiny object. Two weeks ago, it was all about how the U.S. is shitting all over its currency and its monetary policy of easing. No one was focused on the European problems, which have been there for anyone to see for a few years now. Then the focus turns to Ireland, and that gave (until today, when it reversed) the dollar a boost. The crazy thing to me is that the dollar is no stronger than it was. And Europe is no different than it was 3 months ago. Yet, the markets are so reactive. It's kind of fascinating to me.

    I wish there was a way to time the meltdown of the Euro. There just isn't, at least for a small investor. Because if you could, it is almost a certainty that it is going to happen in my opinion.
     
  6. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Spain's economy is too big to let fail, and way too big to save. Ditto Italy. They'll be the countries that sink the euro. End of the day, fewer people live in Ireland than live in Madrid, Paris, Rome or London. The euro countries can keep it afloat long enough for economic growth to improve enough to ameliorate the problem, or far more likely, one of the bigger countries becomes the next crisis, and as Ragu has astutely observed, everyone will just forget about Ireland.
     
  7. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Question for the economists: If everyone defaults on their debt simultaneously or in short order, what is the outcome? Other than not finding anyone to loan money.
     
  8. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    Everyone who has debt suddenly finds their lives a lot better temporarily. Everyone who was counting on debt payments (companies who employ people, anyone with any sort of retirement savings that include bonds) take it in the shorts, and then eventually business grinds to a halt because nobody is lending anymore, and businesses can't run without short-term loans.

    It's kinda like asking "What would happen if a big chunk of the world just stole a bunch of money from the rest of the world?"
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Biggest effect from your standpoint comes down to who owns that debt. If it is banks all over Europe and Asia mostly (and it is), it will be another financial crisis. Bigger than the one we precipitated. Gee minimized the effects of a "small" country like Ireland defaulting (and they won't -- they are going to get bailed out). But there is conservatively several hundred billion dollars of exposure to Ireland sprinkled around Europe. British banks alone have $150 billion worth of Irish debt. Germany another $130 to $140 billion or so. It will be enough to take down some banks, and once that starts, there will be a domino effect, which in turn will drag down the other debt-ridden countries that are on the brink. They won't be able to sell more bonds. With the U.S.'s debt load and monetary policy that has weakened the dollar, the spillover will reach here, unfortunately. When the Euro is weak, the dollar typically is a beneficiary. But we have really hurt the dollar and our treasuries are not very desirable. Maybe foreigners buy them as a "safer" alternative. Or maybe they see the U.S. as just as vulnerable, albeit to a lesser degree.
     
  10. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    All this stuff about banks failing and countries collapsing economically wouldn't be happening if there was a salary cap.
     
  11. Armchair_QB

    Armchair_QB Well-Known Member

    YOU ONLY COVER US WHEN OUR CURRENCY IS ABOUT TO COLLAPSE!!!
     
  12. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Only about half of the lost population moved. The rest of them died.
     
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