Impeachment -- A Discussion

Meanwhile, the fur flies on MTP this morning. I'm going to have to catch the repeats in between baseball games.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/15/webb-v-graham/

Anybody else think Jim Webb would make a good guy to lead a push for impeachment and/or censure? I haven't given the idea a lot of thought, but he certainly seems to have the right political instincts for something like that...

 

Huckleberry looks like he might wet himself there.

 

You impeach Shrubby, you have:



Fully eligible to run for two terms of office.

 

Just got done watching both the Leahy video. Sara Taylor looked, sounded and acted as if she'd rolled right out of bed prior to giving her testimony. She also looked like a trashier Fawn Hall.

 

Fenian,

I understood what Nichols and Fein were advocating, but it's easy to argue theory in their setting because there's a vacuum from reality. It's harder to actually implement the theory in real life because reality or perception can get in the way.

The reality of impeaching Bush and Cheney would be the subsequent perception of at least 33 percent (and perhaps as many as 40 percent) of the population that their impeachments were in retaliation for Clinton's impeachment nearly eight years ago. To that segment, it doesn't matter if Bush and Cheney committed any crimes at all. What matters to them is that the Democrats are trying to overthrow the administration. Perception is reality.

Would I like to see Bush and Cheney held accountable for what they've done to this country? You're dame right I do. But, I also want to see an end to this era of petty partisan bickering. Let Congress keep them in check for the remainder of their term and let them leave as this nation's worst administration in 76 years. If you try to impeach, we make martyrs out of Bush and Cheney. The people pushing for impeachment don't see or don't want to see that.

This country has no statesmen or stateswomen any more. Instead, we have people like Ann Coulter and Cindy Sheehan representing the extremes of our country. Who speaks for those of us in between? Who dares to rise above the rancor and put their nation before their party or their beliefs.

Both Nichols and Fein talked about the need for treating the electorate as adults. That is true and that has been lacking from both sides. But if we want our elected officials to treat us like adults, then they must first act like adults. And one way they can show that is by putting any impeachment plan on the tallest shelf.

 

Well, impeached AND convicted.

Clinton was impeached but not convicted, so he stayed on.

 

I couldn't disagree more.
There is nothing petty about investigating crimes against the Constitution. There is nothing childish about bringing to an end a theory of executive power that radically transforms and disfigures American government. That would be the act of a mature, evolved democratic republic. I'm sorry that impeachment got cheapened 10 years ago. I really am. But if you think that rescuing the fundamental constitutional structure of the United States is some airy exercise in theory, then we really are doomed. That 33 percent of the people you're talking about are the ones that need to grow up.

 

Clinton's impeachment was in direct retaliation for Nixon getting "hounded out of office" (in the view of the Shiite/Sith Republicans) 25 years earlier. It was a lot of the familiar faces driving the bandwagon -- a lot of the medium-level aides and flunkies during the Nixon years had graduated on to the Hill, and they still carried the torch for their fallen idol.

It was only a matter of time until they got their hands on a popular-yet-polarizing Democrat (Carter was too ineffective to qualify, making impeachment moot) and tried to take him down, just as the sainted Darth Nixon had been taken down a generation earlier.

 

I'm betwixt and between on impeachment.
I think I'd rather have a high-up Republican - Hagel? - leading the charge so it doesn't have such a partisan sheen.

 

Coool

 

Fenian,

I agree there's nothing petty about investigating crimes against the Constitution, especially when those crimes are committed by those who took an oath to defend. Impeachment is just one solution -- and not the only one -- when it comes to correcting such crises. Censure Bush. Censure Cheney. Make sure there are no appointments for the next 17 months. Let Congress use its checks and balances to the fullest extent. It may grind the Beltway to a screeching halt, but so would impeachment.

Impeachment is, however, the "nuclear" option, and when one side goes nuclear, it all but guarantees retaliation. That's the sad state of politics these days. Are we to blame? Perhaps. What can we do about it? Nothing in the short-term; it would take several election cycles to correct the mess we currently have in leadership.

 

Like they said...