I'll try this again and why on earth isn't it worth discussing?

And businesses' fault for not realizing they lose consumers of their goods if they put Americans out of work

 

I don't agree.

We need to fix education. That will eliminate a lot of the wealth gap. We just aren't a manufacturing economy any more. We need to become an ideas economy, for lack of a better word.

We are still probably the wealthiest nation on earth. We are probably the most educated nation on earth. It's the distribution that sucks, and that is fixable.

 

Why isn't it worth discussing?

Perhaps because it is boring and depressing.

Sort of like listening to someone talk about inept sex.

Only without the humor.

 

But enough about BYH

 

Is there a socio-economic group that isn't convinced it's getting screwed?

 

Of course not. People always see the world through a prism of self-interest. That's OK. Allegedly, that's what the government is around for, to act as the dispassionate adults in the room. Obviously it doesn't always work out that way, but I have long since stopped judging wealthy people for lobbying for themselves.

 

I remember an offhand conversation I once had where the other person said he couldn't understand how people could just vote in their own self-interest. I said that's what they SHOULD do. I just can't understand why so many people do exactly the opposite.

So, no, I don't have a problem with the Koch brothers arguing that they should pay fewer taxes (well, that's not true, but I can understand it, anyway, and I can concede that I'd probably do the same thing in their position). I have a problem with them expecting other people to make that argument for them, and I have an even bigger problem with those people for actually doing it.

 

They think they are. Think back to World War Obamacare. It took Republicans about five minutes to convince the elderly that their health care was going to be rationed (and, frankly, it is in a lot of countries that practice socialized medicine, and age plays into it). It took them about seven minutes to convince the non-elderly that liberals wanted to "pull the plug on Grandma." Hence, voters, acting on the way the information had been framed for them, believed they were voting in their self-interest.

It's an information problem. Or an interpretation problem. Or a voting-on-social-issues-rather-than-economic-issues problem.

I get tired of blaming American voters for the fact that Democrats can't put together a coherent bleeping case for themselves.

 

Dick the reason Democrats can't put together a coherent case is that the ruling Democrats are about as out of touch with a working class budget as Republican leaders are. They can't relate, it's just politicospeak and they really don't give a shit beyond the vote about working class people. Otherwise, I might be Democrat. I think I am a 50s style Democrat, but that era and those people are long gone.

GOP: Unapologetically the party of the CEO
Democrats: Wordspeak to the Working Class; otherwise owned by CEO interests themselves.
Fact: Most of America has no representation.

 

This is an honest, earnest question, because you seem to be sincere here.

It bothers you that most of America doesn't have representation. This is true, because most of America lacks political power. To gain political power, you have to organize. And lobby.

So ... why did your side piss all over the current president for spending five years in downtrodden neighborhoods in Chicago, where he organized working-class people so that they would have political clout?

Remember this one: "It's kind of like being a 'community organizer.' Except you actually do work!" (Loud applause)

 

I'd love to know what your basis is for this claim. Certainly not by literacy rates(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate), and I have no idea how many stories I've seen in recent years about how shockingly low our kids' math and science scores have fallen compared to those in Europe and Asia.

The only factor that keeps us ranked high in overall educational composite studies is our University system--we still have more Unis ranked in the World Top 100 than any other country--but, frankly, that's partly because of the HUGE number of Asian and other foreign brains we now import each year. If our top universities had to rely entirely on American brains? Yeesh, it would not be pretty. The sad truth is we've become an inexcusably poorly educated population compared to our industrialized first world competitiors.

As for the larger issue, we need to find a way to bring back some of our departed manufacturing base. The idea that we can flip this switch and become an "idea" economy that will restore our formerly dominant status is a pipe dream. Will. Never. Happen. An emphasis focused on that path will continue to gloriously benefit the fortunate few tech heads, silicon valley types and market manipulators, but in terms of our nation's overall economic direction, we'll keep spiralling downward.

I think the way we sat back and allowed our once-dominant manufacturing base to be utterly pillaged the last two decades might be the most misunderstood and under-discussed (relative to actual importance) issue of this early century. And one that will be viewed as far more historically significant when future egghead historians try to figure out what the hell happened to us.

We're not coming back unless we start making shit here again--not just "idea" or "service" type shit--but real tangible THINGS that people touch and use every day type shit. Not sure how to bring it back. But that's what needs to happen.

 

Yes, I was basing it on the university system.

Your points, though, are of course well-taken.