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If you visit National Parks, you are a bad person

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by YankeeFan, Sep 6, 2013.

Page 4 of 9
  1. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    i(we)don't live for the economy, it exists for me(us)
     
    heyabbott, Sep 7, 2013
    #37
  2. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Only if Dan Haren is pitching.
     
    Baron Scicluna, Sep 7, 2013
    #38
  3. micropolitan guy

    micropolitan guy Well-Known Member

    Wow, Ragu endorses collective bargaining rights for public employees! ;D
     
    micropolitan guy, Sep 8, 2013
    #39
  4. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    I imagine the most strict libertarians and conservatives endorse that right. They just don't endorse government protections to make it easier to exercise that right.
     
    RickStain, Sep 8, 2013
    #40
  5. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    Actually, Ragu is endorsing individual bargaining rights, which no one could have anything against.
     
    old_tony, Sep 8, 2013
    #41
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I am not really endorsing anything, so much as looking at leverage and negotiation in what I think is a logical way. It's not a matter of "individual" versus "collective" bargaining rights.

    I naturally support any person -- OR collective group -- that can use whatever leverage it can muster to negotiate the best terms it possibly can. Why wouldn't I? That is the essence of negotiation. You bring whatever leverage you have to the table and you try to get every scrap you can based on the value you offer to the person or people on the other side of the table. I endorse or bless anyone that gets every scrap they command.

    Collective bargaining in labor negotiations makes perfect sense, in some cases. If there is a group of workers who are so highly skilled or unique that they can't be easily replaced, it usually makes sense for those workers to collectively bargain, rather than bargain individually.

    Look at major league baseball players, for example. Prior to organizing, players tried to individually bargain contracts, and that limited the leverage they had. But by bargaining as a group, their leverage grew exponentially. One player might be replaceable, but a whole team isn't -- fans aren't going to accept a wholesale promotion of the AAA team.

    Collective bargaining doesn't really help workers who don't have skills that are that hard to replace, though. It's why unionization in and of itself doesn't increase the leverage of say, a factory worker or a supermarket cashier. The whole factory can threaten to walk, but there are going to be plenty of people willing and able to take over their jobs.

    The reason we have had periods in which unions thrived in this country wasn't because those unions created natural leverage through collective bargaining. It was because of laws and regulations that gave those unions artificial leverage that they bought from lawmakers -- starting with the Wagner Act, and waxing and waning over time based on who was greasing who the most.

    I don't endorse that kind of corruption in what should be private transactions. Nor should anyone, not only for fairness reasons, but because it stifles economic activity and growth that would benefit us all in the aggregate.

    But as far as two individuals or two groups or an individual and an employer negotiating? I endorse people's right to negotiate for every last scrap that their skills or leverage can command.
     
    The Big Ragu, Sep 8, 2013
    #42
  7. Shoeless Joe

    Shoeless Joe Active Member

    Our National Parks preserve and make accessible the best part of our country. It always pisses me off when the government starts shutting things down, the parks are some of the first to close. "Oh hey, times are tough, and we know people don't have much disposable income, so we are going to take away the one place your family can go for free."

    As for the "racist" part, as already noted, most minorities live in large urban areas. National Parks are located in the preserved outer areas. That's just a tough break of geography and maybe sociology. I can't just drop by Yosemite or Denali, either.
     
    Shoeless Joe, Sep 8, 2013
    #43
  8. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    They don't have to be staffed and managed by the US Federal government in order to be preserved and accessible.

    We're providing subsidized vacations for white folks who could afford to pay more for these visits:

    The lack of visits by people of color isn't a new problem either, and it's not one the National Parks Service is capable of solving.

    Here's the Times on the same subject in 2010:

    This was identified as a problem 40 years ago, and nothing has changed.

    Does anyone think the current effort will change anything?

    Privatize the parks. Let the rich white folks who like to visit, and who can afford to visit, continue to visit, and pay market prices.

    Services will be better. Marketing will be better.

    And, the Government can spend money on something we all value -- like midnight basketball.
     
    YankeeFan, Sep 8, 2013
    #44
  9. Shoeless Joe

    Shoeless Joe Active Member

    "We're providing subsidized vacations for white folks..."
    Uh, no, they are providing the same accessibility to ALL AMERICANS. I'm pretty sure there are not Jim Crow signs outside any of our National Parks.

    Yes, I can walk out onto my front porch and see parts of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and there is a historical site operated by the NPS 2 miles from my house that I run past almost every day, but I haven't been to DC and all the free government sites in nine years, and I have never been to the Statue of Liberty or Ellis Island ... so the government is clearly racist against rural white people.
     
    Shoeless Joe, Sep 8, 2013
    #45
  10. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    They should just add free entrance to all National Parks on
    EBT cards.
     
    Boom_70, Sep 8, 2013
    #46
  11. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    No need.

    Apparently, the NPS is so desperate for visitors of color, they'll arrange to have your entire trip -- VIP style -- paid for if you just ask them:

    They were "honored" to accept this free vacation:

    “We are elated to join the 2013 @American_Latino Expedition and for the opportunity to experience one of our country's natural gems. As travelers and writers, we thrive on exploration, cultural connection and the beauty of nature. So, this collaboration between the National Park Service and the American Latino Heritage Fund speaks personally to us. We are honored to be a part of the message that encourages others like us to explore and discover the national parks.”

    http://www.alhf.org/alex13/travelistas-nature
     
    YankeeFan, Sep 8, 2013
    #47
  12. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    That artificial leverage that you say was bought with lawmakers has a long history of going the other way in the US. Namely, employers buying the government through the power of the police. How many times in the nation's history did the governement, either locally, statewide, or nationally, use police powers to break strikes? Plenty of times.
     
    Baron Scicluna, Sep 8, 2013
    #48
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