Ichiro -- discuss

You're nuts. Henderson's career OBP was .401, Ichiro's is .378. And if Henderson hadn't held on (at least) four years too long, it would have been even higher.

Henderson was never the defensive player Ichiro is, but he was a better offensive player. Much more power, a more dominant base-stealer (though Ichiro's career steal percentage is about 1 percent higher --- 81 percent vs. 80 percent) and so much more disciplined at the plate it's hardly even worth discussing.

Ichiro's a great player, a Hall-of-Famer, but making the case for him based solely on his batting average is a very weak strategy.

 

I knew SJ wouldn't let me down. We'd find a debate here somewhere.

Henderson is better than Ichiro, in my book, because of the power and SBs. His higher OBP also.

 

Well, somebody had to say something to piss people off here. Keep in mind that Rickey's ridiculous career numbers were amassed over 25 seasons spent in the major leagues, Ichiro hasn't even finished his 9th yet. I'd agree Henderson's career Major League resume is obviously far more impressive, but it would not be if Ichiro had begun his career here.

We're talking about a guy who got 2000 hits in less than 9 frickin seasons, who's also a tremendous defensive player with a cannon arm who's won the Gold Glove award every single year he's been here (does anybody dispute that Ichiro's a much better defensive player than Henderson?), who's also a tremendous base runner and base stealer. The guy won the MVP in his very first season here, so lord only knows what he would've done if that first decade of his career hadn't been spent elsewhere. And he's done it all in a frail looking 160 lb body in the age of the steroid freak baseball player. The guy is phenomenal.

I guess we can only speculate on where he'd be now if he hadn't spent his first decade in Japan, but I'm certain he'd be in the absolute upper reaches. He'd not only be over 3k now, but we'd be debating whether he had a shot to break Rose's all time hit record. And, yeah, I'm thinking people would be placing him above Rickey in the end. But, I'll concede, that IS just speculation.

 

Stoney, did you ever see Rickey in his prime?

 

Yeah, but admittedly, not often. I was a kid then, and we didn't get many of his games in my neck of the woods.

 

Ichiro never has been and never will be the force that Henderson was.
He's a great (singles) hitter an very good outfielder and has a great arm. He is not a player who has an overwhelming impact on a game, as Henderson did.

 

I'd put Henderson's 1985 and 1990 seasons up there among the best individual performances of the last 30 years.

 

Ichiro was a legitimate marvel his first month or two in the major leagues alone.

 

For the pro-Ichiro side: Henderson always missed 10-20 games a season.

Does Ichiro playing right field give him more value than a player who played left field?

These throws are amazing.

Henderson probably gets the nod, but I don't the gap between them is that wide.

 

Read about "Rickey Runs" and get back to me about Ichiro being a more dominant offensive force. No contest.

Henderson could do EVERYTHING at the plate. Ichiro can make the bat do anything he wants. There's a difference.

Ichiro's got an edge defensively, but Rickey was certainly no slouch in the field.

Dude's a no-brainer Hall of Famer, and one of the best players the major leagues has ever seen. But he's not Rickey.

 

In fairness, Henderson played almost exclusively in center field during his Yankee days. While he was never great defensively (though he did win a Gold Glove in 1981), he wasn't a Lou Brock or Lonnie Smith-style butcher, either. He played left mostly because he had a relatively weak throwing arm, and because in his first tour with Oakland, the A's had Dwayne Murphy, one of the best defensive center fielders of his day.

 

Plus Rickey's snap catch rOOled.