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Huzzah, World War I finally ends

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Inky_Wretch, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. NoOneLikesUs

    NoOneLikesUs Active Member

    I recently read a book called "Aftermath: The Remnants of War". The first chapter deals with the French government's bomb removal squads. They're dispatched into these still off-limits areas from the first World War where they quietly go about removing decades old shells. Some 600 of these removal experts have died in the field since 1945. It is said that if the work continues at its current rate, the fields of France would be free of ordinance in 700 years.

    Watch the first part of this documentary: http://www.nfb.tv/film/aftermath_the_remnants_of_war/

    And on a totally unrelated matter, the best WWI film I have ever seen is Uomini Contro. It's about the Italians' struggle against the Austrians, but really sums up the madness of the whole war quite well. Check out this clip if you've got a few minutes:



    Yes, it looks absurd, but Italian generals did allegedly send troops out into the field dressed in that armor. They had no concept of the destructive force of modern weapons and thought the ancient armor traditions of Roman soldiers would apply to their situation.
     
  2. Brian

    Brian Well-Known Member

    I think we marginalize WWI for more reasons than just America's late entry into the war. The Brokaw line was a throwaway.

    People are reassured by the notions of WWII. It re-enforces what they already believe. It fits the American narrative of how it sees itself in relation to the world.

    America never wanted to face the questions WWI posed. Europe did try to answer them and those answers almost drove the continent crazy. I don't think WWI offers any solace for people. It began with the U.S. tip-toeing around the war and it ended with a college president president who believed in the power of an intervening government setting up a doomed international body.

    That doesn't make a good John Wayne movie or really fit in the Cold War narrative.
     
  3. SoCalScribe

    SoCalScribe Member

    That was a good film clip, NoOneLikesUs. Lots of similar actual footage from the western front exists. I think WWI might have been the zenith of the importance of the machine gun, since it so outclassed the bolt-action rifles most troops carried.
     
  4. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Not only this, but unlike WWII, which had a majority of the U.S. population in favor of after Pearl Harbor, WWI wasn't necessarily a very popular war.

    You had plenty of Americans sympathizing with Germany, and the draft was reinstalled because Wilson and Congress thought that Americans would just rally around the flag and enlist as soon as they declared war. They didn't.

    What really gets me is, as Double J posted, the millions of soldiers that were killed. It took four years for those casualties to accumulate. I'm just wondering why, after a year or so, it didn't occur to someone, "You know, this really isn't a good idea. Maybe I'll contact my cousin and see if we can call this whole thing off." Nope. Let's just kill an entire generation in order to have bragging rights.
     
  5. albert77

    albert77 Well-Known Member

    For America, WWII was by far more important and more significant, but for world history as a whole, WWI is unquestionably the watershed event of the 20th century. So much of what the world has dealt with in a geopolitical sense flows out of the events of 1914-18.

    One interesting aspect that has been touched on was the assassination of Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. The original attack was actually a bombing that killed and wounded several members of his traveling party. After the official ceremonies at the city hall, FF wanted to detour to the hospital to visit and console the wounded from his party. The motorcade turned into a narrow street right in front of Princip, who seized the opportunity to shoot the archduke and his wife.

    Even then, war might have been averted had Austria acted a little more prudently. Germany, in fact, was not eager for war over the issue, but was pushed into action when Austria attacked Serbia, which then turned to its ally Russia for help. It wasn't until Russia announced the mobilization of its army in support of Serbia that the train of war left the station and couldn't be stopped.

    And, Baron, once the two sides got locked into stalemate, the military people were running the show and they were in it to win it. Even if the "cousins" had unilaterally decided they were horrified enough to try to call it quits, by 1915 it was well out of their hands.
     
  6. Double J

    Double J Active Member

    Well, it sure as hell played a formative and consequential part in my happening - if my old man hadn't shot as straight as he did, especially when his battalion was surrounded by a Chinese division, I might not be here today!! :)
     
  7. Shoeless Joe

    Shoeless Joe Active Member

    I have read somewhere that we had the BAR ready to go by 1918 and could have put it in the field but the powers be were afraid if it was used in combat one might get captured so they left it locked up in the armories.

    Now that's real thinking ???
     
  8. Double J

    Double J Active Member

    The cousins - and Kaiser Wilhelm and Tsar Nicholas were indeed first cousins by blood as well as by marriage - had an interesting dialogue in the days leading up to the declaration of war.

    http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/The_Willy-Nicky_Telegrams

    Kaiser to Tsar, July 31

    Berlin, 31. July 1914

    On your appeal to my friendship and your call for assistance began to mediate between your and the austro-hungarian Government. While this action was proceeding your troops were mobilised against Austro-Hungary, my ally. thereby, as I have already pointed out to you, my mediation has been made almost illusory.

    I have nevertheless continued my action. I now receive authentic news of serious preparations for war on my Eastern frontier. Responsibility for the safety of my empire forces preventive measures of defence upon me. In my endeavours to maintain the peace of the world I have gone to the utmost limit possible. The responsibility for the disaster which is now threatening the whole civilized world will not be laid at my door. In this moment it still lies in your power to avert it. Nobody is threatening the honour or power of Russia who can well afford to await the result of my mediation. My friendship for you and your empire, transmitted to me by my grandfather on his deathbed has always been sacred to me and I have honestly often backed up Russia when she was in serious trouble especially in her last war.

    The peace of Europe may still be maintained by you, if Russia will agree to stop the milit. measures which must threaten Germany and Austro-Hungary.

    Willy

    * * *

    Tsar to Kaiser, July 31
    This and the previous telegram crossed.

    Petersburg, Palace, 31 July 1914
    Sa Majesté l'Empereur, Neues Palais

    I thank you heartily for your mediation which begins to give one hope that all may yet end peacefully. It is technically impossible to stop our military preparations which were obligatory owing to Austria's mobilisation. We are far from wishing war. As long as the negociations with Austria on Servia's account are taking place my troops shall not make any provocative action. I give you my solemn word for this. I put all my trust in Gods mercy and hope in your successful mediation in Vienna for the welfare of our countries and for the peace of Europe.

    Your affectionate
    Nicky


    There's more in the link. Earlier in the dialogue, Wilhelm signed off as "Your very sincere and devoted friend and cousin, Willy."
     
  9. albert77

    albert77 Well-Known Member

    A real irony of WWI is that if Schliffen had lived (he died in 1906), or if his successors had been bold enough to stick to the Plan as it was drawn up, there is a very high likelihood Germany would have won the war in six weeks.

    But Belgium proved tougher than expected, the British managed to slow the advance at the Frontiers, and Moltke panicked when the Russians advanced much faster than expected and moved two divisions from the West to the East.

    Finally, the Germans turned in front of Paris, instead of sticking with the Plan and marching west of the city, in hopes of delivering a killing blow, and that gave the French an opening to counterattack at the Marne.
     
  10. Football_Bat

    Football_Bat Well-Known Member

    The past is simply prologue. The Napoleonic wars begat the Franco-Prussian War, which begat WWI, which begat WWII, which in turn begat the Cold War. What comes next with peace on a mostly-unified continent, who knows.

    If you go to Europe, I highly recommend the Verdun battlefield.
     
  11. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but the cousins could have decided to end their drafts, and tell their citizens to go home. They didn't have to provide the funds for their armies. The military people would have then been fighting on their own, without millions of people to serve as cannon fodder.

    But the top guys in charge chose not to, and probably didn't give a damn about their citizens' welfare. They wanted their glory.
     
  12. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Then I hope you've read this book:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought_%28book%29

    One of my all-time favorites.
     
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