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Howard Bryant: Upshaw and Union leave Vick to the dogs

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by heyabbott, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    You're wrong on just about every count here.

    --It's absolutely a union's job to defend every single member because every case sets a precedent for future cases.

    -- While it's not the union's duty to defend or represent a member in court, it is the union's job to defend the member's workplace rights (unjust suspensions, etc.) as the MLBPA did with Howe and others and the NFLPA should be doing for Vick.

    -- Unlike Don Fehr, Marvin Miller was not a lawyer. However, the MLBPA financed Curt Flood's case and supplied him with a great lawyer (Arthur Goldberg) who, in retrospect, was preoccupied with other matters and, according to Miller, didn't do a terribly good job with the case. While the PA was not under any obligation to do so, the union board brought Flood to its winter meetings to explain why he wanted to challenge the reserve clause and the board voted unanimously to support him because they considered the case important for all players. (Fehr's initial involvement with the PA, by the way, came when he represented the PA in federal court in the Andy Messermsmith case.)

    Bottom line here is that it's a union job to protect THE CONTRACT. A union cannot allow personal feeling or public sentiment keep it from doing everything in its power to protect the rights it has negotiated on behalf of the group. It's duty is not to the sport or the public but to the rights of its present and future members.

    As for Upshaw, I don't agree with a lot of the things that he does but I'd also point out that he operates from a position of weakness. That's not his fault as much as the players themselves who over the years scoffed at the idea of having a strong union. When you wonder why the NFLPA is weak and why the retirees benefit packages are weak compared to baseball, go back and read about how players like Joe Montana and Dan Fouts and others -- most QBs and running backs whom the NFL successfully split from the group -- undermined the union's solidarity back in the early and mid '80s.

    That's the short version. I could go on about that knucklehead Ed Garvey, too, but I have work to do.
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Given the reality of professional football and what it does to men physically, anyone who got the owners to guarantee contracts wouldn't be running a union. He'd been running an extortion and rackateering business, and it would require guns, not negotiating skills.

    I disagree with your first statement about the union being an affront to what you consider real unions. Pro athletes are one of the rare instances in which unionizing and collectively bargaining actually works (and makes sense). The proof is in how other unions have died off, but players salaries have shot through the roof. The players have a skill that can not be easily replaced. It gives them the kind of leverage people in much less skilled jobs don't have--why it's ridiculous for a guy manning a cash register to believe that a union can magically give him any leverage. It's why most other unions have died, but the NFLPA, MLBPA, etc. are still going strong and their players are earning way more money than they used to. This is what a REAL union looks like, JR. A union that has bargaining chips. In football, the players have less leverage, because of the injury factor, how short careers are, and how relatively easily replaced most grunts are. When those are your chips, you have no chance to negotiate the guaranteed contracts you think Upshaw is supposed to miraculously get the owners to agree to. What the NFLPA has done, though, is use the leverage the players do have (and they have quite a bit) to get the owners to fork over a huge slice of the NFL pie. The players take almost 60 percent of total football revenues, which is not just a huge percentage for "labor," but was amazing to pull off since it required the smaller market owners to agree to it without insisting that owners like Jerry Jones fork over more.

    People talk about the salary cap as if the union is weak, but that cap has the owners handing over significantly more than half of what they make and it will transfer about a billion dollars between the owners and the players over the six-year life of the current extension. I don't see how this makes the union a lapdog of the owners. What was the union supposed to do, get the owners to hand everything over and declare bankruptcy? The owners have a wee bit of leverage, too, you know?

    As for the retired players, Upshaw doesn't represent them. He's the first to say it. Upshaw earns a multimillion dollar salary. Those retired players aren't paying it. Upshaw is representing the people who pay him. It is sad and we can debate the morality of the current players not tossing some cash back to care for the guys who paved the way, but that is the way the world works. Upshaw has a fiduciary responsibility to represent the guys playing right now. He has no responsibility for the guy who played 30 years ago.
     
  3. Twoback

    Twoback Active Member

    The union's job is not to defend every miscreant's right to work. It's to set the best possible working conditions and wages for the members of its union. In those circumstances where management mistreats members of its working staff, the union is empowered to step in and defend those members.
    The notion that unions were designed to defend every misbehaving employee helped wreck the union movement in this country.
    Honest workers grew tired of subsidizing the dead wood.
     
  4. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Salary caps are designed to force a group to take less than they would ordinarily get in an free market. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Generally speaking, unions have not died due to lack of leverage (although leverage certainly makes some union's stronger than others) but by a concerted corporate/political effort to reign in (gut?) their ability to protect their members.

    The NFL is nearing the point of becoming a house union.
     
  5. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    As I explained earlier, a union does not protect individual employees, it protects the negotiated rights of all employees. Whether management encroaches upon the rights of a model employee or a "miscreant" the rights must still be protected because all cases set precedents for future cases. In fact, it is a union's legal obligation to do so and unions can and have been sued by members for failing to represent them.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    The salary cap in the case of the NFL is very rational--on the part of the owners AND the players. The NFL is the strongest pro sports league financially and has boosted its revenue to unbelievable levels since the cap, because of the parity and the fan interest it creates. A Green Bay Packers fan knows his team is at least starting out on a level playing field with the bigger-market teams each season. It doesn't mean his GM will be smarter than Scott Pioli, but it does give every fan hope. This makes guessing the final standings every year harder than it is with most other sports. That combined with some savvy marketing has kept fans more interested. That increased fan interest has led to booming revenues--the NFL is doing better than any pro sports league. As long as the players union is taking close to 60 percent of those total revenues, I would bet they don't care whether you believe they are a "house union." Yeah, the players and owners have partnered to a degree. It's just smart business. They have both gotten much richer than they would have, as a result. That would seem smart to most people.
     
  7. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    A lot of the retired NFL players seem to care that there's a house union in place.

    The NFL is hugely sucessful because it's a great sport played in the winter that's ideally packaged for television and gambling. The NFL players take less of the money than they would in a free market because of the cap and, believe me, the NFL would not go out of business without one. MLB has thrived without a cap.

    Revenue sharing, not a salary cap, is what created parity in the NFL.
     
  8. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Cran's right. It has to do with revenue sharing. The cap is only a product of that.

    I find it ironic that the champion of Ayn Rand capitalism, Ragu, is touting the closest thing America has to textbook socialism--the NFL.
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    No irony at all. One, Ayn Rand has nothing to do with anything.

    That stupidity aside, though, I heartily encourage you and your friends to go out and start a rival league to the NFL. Have at it. You don't just get my blessing, you get my full encouragement! And if you can make it work, you get my admiration.
     
  10. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    A little testy this morning, aren't we?

    What does "starting a competitive league" got to do with the price of tea in China? Talk about a red herring.

    The success of the league--quite simply--can be traced back to Pete Rozelle's revenue sharing.
     
  11. It seems a lot of people don't think the NFLPA is doing its job unless it's going on strike, being obstructionist and standing up for every player with an off-field problem. And yet Gene Upshaw is "weak" because the NFL is the best pro league in the country, financially and popularity-wise, and its players are locked into getting 62 percent (I think that's what it is) of all revenues.

    And Cranberry, gambling and the playing in the winter have been constants since the 1960s. Yet the NFL has surpassed MLB and the NBA in the last 15-20 years. What changed?
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You brought up capitalism out of the blue. What was YOUR point? Red herring? I was answering you directly. What are you looking for?

    There are no artificial barriers to entry stopping you from starting a football league. If you want to characterize my beliefs in pithy little statements, at least get them right. And there is a good place to start. I believe that if you can put together a product to rival the NFL and make money doing it, there should be nothing stopping you--no artificial barriers to entry, no government anti-trust exemptions... nothing. The NFL is not predicated on old-fashioned government socialism that makes it illegal for anyone to try to compete--the type you and I have spoken about on the board, and which I believe you advocate (correct me if I am wrong about that). Go to it, if you want to compete with the NFL. I am all for it.

    The reason few people do is that the NFL at this point has a natural monopoly. There is nothing stopping you from trying to compete, but your chances of doing it are not good. The fact that there is not a competing league on the same scale, offering players the same kind of wealth, makes the dynamic between labor and management different than it is for 99 percent of other industries, in which there are rival businesses for labor to sell their services to. It's more than offset, though, by the fact that pro football players have a lot of leverage of their own that offsets the monopoly the owners own, due to their athletic ability. This is the leverage they use at the negotiating table. The owners can't threaten to replace them, because if there was another Peyton Manning out there to replace him with, he'd already be in the NFL. It creates an interesting dynamic that despite the natural monopoly, gives players way more leverage than most workers in more competitive industries. It's why NFL players earn the salaries they do.
     
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