Horrible economic news. This makes me sad

Beaker · Sep 19, 2011

I don't think anyone wants to see working stiffs lose their jobs. And sure, if such news indicates that that will happen, then yeah, it does suck.

On the other hand, I think people are reacting to the absolutely ridiculous salaries/bonuses (not to mention golden parachute payments) that many executives make...that seem incredibly disproportionate...

Johnny Dangerously · Sep 19, 2011

That's how I read the reactions, for what it's worth.

LongTimeListener · Sep 19, 2011

The Big Ragu said:

LongTimeListener said:

So what special skills do these geniuses bring that they got hoodwinked at a time when their only, only, ONLY function was "make sure you don't get hoodwinked"?
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"These genuises"? You are clueless. UBS is more than inept management team. It employees between 50,000 and 70,000 people worldwide. Like the programmer who earns $73K and is going to be losing his job next month. Or the financial advisor who earns $66K and won't be getting that bonus he was hoping for. Or the business banking advisor who earns $80K and is sweating his job today. Or the HR person who earns $75K and may or may not have a job next month. And that senior fixed income analyst who earns $100K and won't be seeing a bonus, which was a significant portion of his expected compensation.

Funny fucking stuff. I'll put the over / under at another 5,000 layoffs announced within the next month. Do you want to organize the party?
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Sure. You bring the pity. If we're jacking the rhetoric this high, the only goddamn people in the world you seem to care about are billionaires and millionaires. This is the free-market solution, baby! This is government getting out of the way! Embrace it, it's the future! Woohoo!

I don't give two fucking shits how many of these people you personally know, OK? Just like you don't give two fucking shits about anybody who isn't in the money industry.

Your second-year analyst from before, he's going to be OK. He has already learned how to fleece international pensioners and taxpayers out of their money just fine.

LongTimeListener · Sep 19, 2011

Also, Ragu -- why don't you break down the bonus pool for us, since you know everything. How much of the bonus pool was supposed to be directed toward people who are already making in excess of $500,000? In excess of $250,000? Most of it, I'm guessing.

micropolitan guy · Sep 19, 2011

In total, the compensation for GEB members in office on December 2010 was CHF 91.0 million, compared with a total of CHF 68.7 million in 2009. There were 13 GEB members on 31 December 2010, the same number as at the end of 2009.
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So the top 13 members of its management team earned an average of $7 million in salary (before bonuses) and received an average raise of $1.82 million in 2010. I think they will stay off Foodstamps.

Heck, just reduce their salary back to 2009's already-lucrative $7 million and the "savings" of $22.3 million is enough to fund nearly 1500 of those $15 K bonus.

Ben_Hecht · Sep 19, 2011

This is a serious question, sans any agenda:

Where were any internal controls which might possibly have prevented this from happening?

The Big Ragu · Sep 19, 2011

micropolitan guy said:

I expect if they eliminated the bonuses of the highest-paid 20 or so employees, who are earning more than enough money to get by with two houses, a yacht and five cars, they'd have enough to pay the bonuses of those poor schleps struggling to get by at $75 K in their second year as an analyst.

More than 220,000 teachers have lost their jobs this year, 90 percent of them could only dream of making $75K, and they actually make a difference in someone's lives. I'll save my sympathy for them, even if they're evil because they're public employees who belong to a union, not some group of speculators/hedge fund managers/market manipulators.
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You suspect wrong. UBS's compensation plan is regulated (foremost by FINMA in Switzerland, which has been harsher than most regulatory agencies, but also in every jurisdiction it does business) and is a matter of public record. Bank bonuses have been scrutinized since 2008 and the basics for the Swiss banks now are that anyone earning anything has to defer 60 percent or more of their bonus for several years, and its subject to forfiture. They see much less actual cash than they did five years ago. For what its worth, the CEO of UBS came out of retirement to try to save the company (which has been falling apart) and does not receive a bonus.

This is not a pissing match between teachers and employees of UBS, as you just tried to make it. Anyone laughing about this is laughing about regular people, most with ordinary jobs, whose livelhoods are in jeopardy right now because of an inept management team that never should have allowed an investment bank to ruin a company that should have just stuck to private banking and wealth management.

TheSportsPredictor · Sep 19, 2011

The Big Ragu said:

Hysterical stuff. Some idiot creates more than $2 billion in losses that will cause more layoffs, on top of the 5,000 employees who lost their jobs this summer because the company was already looking at a loss for the year. And that second-year analyst earning $75K, who was hoping for another $15K from the bonus pool won't be seeing it--if his job is still there on Monday. Fuck him. Let's all have a laugh over it. It's almost as funny as those saps who got screwed by Bernie Madoff. Ha ha to them too.

Forget the bonus pool, which is probably going to be entirely clawed back. Thousands of people--you know, the types with mortgages and food bills and kids--are going to be losing their jobs soon. Not everyone at UBS is an MD pulling down $180K. Not that that guy losing his bonus, and possibly his job, is all that funny, anyhow.

This board has some seriously miserable fucks. Imagine how you'd feel if there was a message board full of jackals somewhere making jokes about the layoffs at the LA Times.
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Yes, fuck them. They knew they were in a risky business. If they don't like it, get a new job.

poindexter · Sep 19, 2011

The Big Ragu said:

Hysterical stuff. Some idiot creates more than $2 billion in losses that will cause more layoffs, on top of the 5,000 employees who lost their jobs this summer because the company was already looking at a loss for the year. And that second-year analyst earning $75K, who was hoping for another $15K from the bonus pool won't be seeing it--if his job is still there on Monday. Fuck him. Let's all have a laugh over it. It's almost as funny as those saps who got screwed by Bernie Madoff. Ha ha to them too.

Forget the bonus pool, which is probably going to be entirely clawed back. Thousands of people--you know, the types with mortgages and food bills and kids--are going to be losing their jobs soon. Not everyone at UBS is an MD pulling down $180K. Not that that guy losing his bonus, and possibly his job, is all that funny, anyhow.

This board has some seriously miserable fucks. Imagine how you'd feel if there was a message board full of jackals somewhere making jokes about the layoffs at the LA Times.
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Fuck that.

I work with Goldman Sachs people... the peons, the VPs or AVPs.

They dont get shit of the bonus pool. Scraps.

I'll laugh hard at that UBS headline, you can shake your head and wriggle your finger all you want.

The Big Ragu · Sep 19, 2011

Ben_Hecht said:

This is a serious question, sans any agenda:

Where were any internal controls which might possibly have prevented this from happening?
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Great question. UBS's management is inept. It does private banking and wealth management well. If it stuck just to being a private bank, it would be a very good one. But it has been falling apart because of an investment banking division that is poorly run and not competitive with its peers. Thousands of people are going to be losing their jobs soon because a handful inept people who fucked up in a big way. This is the question people who own shares of UBS (which were already getting slaughtered) are asking right now. Who is minding the ship?

poindexter · Sep 19, 2011

For those with a short memory, this isn't UBS's first time in the fuck up rodeo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/business/worldbusiness/19ubs.html

That time, it must have been a rouge offshore banker trying to evade taxes for clients.

poindexter · Sep 19, 2011

The Big Ragu said:

Anyone laughing about this is laughing about regular people, most with ordinary jobs, whose livelhoods are in jeopardy right now because of an inept management team that never should have allowed an investment bank to ruin a company that should have just stuck to private banking and wealth management.
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You're right, we have way too few investment banks as it is now. How can we possibly cope without UBS?

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Horrible economic news. This makes me sad

Beaker Active Member

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Horrible economic news. This makes me sad

Beaker Active Member

Johnny Dangerously Well-Known Member

LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

micropolitan guy Well-Known Member

Ben_Hecht Active Member

The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

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poindexter Well-Known Member

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