HoF - Derek Jeter vs. Andre Dawson

Jeter's numbers, for the most part, are such because of the talent around him.

Hell, even Scott Brosius won a World Series MVP.

 

for the sweet love of god, harley.

 

Jeter: yes.

Dawson: no.

 

So, all of Jeter's hits are because of who played around him?

Oh, and when you hit two monster home runs off of Trevor Hoffman in the World Series, yeah, you deserve a World Series.

You are an idiot.

 

I had to laugh at Boom's fourth tagline ending midthought

 

I'll have to agree with Angola on this issue. You don't have a career .316 batting average or a .386 OBP because of those around you. Not to mention that he'll likely get 3,000 hits.

 

Sirs, Madames,

I'm just a hockey guy but even I know that Andre Dawson was the Expos CF and that he won Gold Gloves 80 to 85. Easily the best CF in the NL in that era. Knees changed all that. Covered him a bit back then--he would have made a helluva boxer. A bigger Hitman or somehing like that.

o-<

 

Dale Murphy just went on a mission trip and doesn't know why.

 

Spirited - I selected the stats I though relevant.

OBP is not relevant to me because Jeter was and is a place-setter (leadoff or #2) whose job is to get on base. Dawson was a slugger whose job was to swing the bat - not try and draw a walk. Besides OBP is more of a modern consideration - nobody expected the clean-up hitter to be a walk specialist back in Dawson's day.

Ted Williams never had a 200 hit season - by your logic on 200-hit seasons - was Wade Boggs was the better player?

As far as hits? How about total bases? Dawson finished with 4787 which averages out to about a base for every 2 AB. Jeter's average is less than Dawson's and bound to go down over the next couple of years. I haven't even mentioned the fact that Dawson never had anyone to protect him in the order unlike Jeter.

And yes - Yankees suck and Jeter swallows

 

Well, Dawson had should-be-a-lock-HOFer Tim Raines ahead of him and actual HOFer (although I don't know why) Gary Carter behind him for a lot of years. I wouldn't say he had a bunch of stiffs in the lineup with him.

And I object to the claim that OBP is a "modern" consideration. Even before the stat itself gained a cult popularity, hitters knew instinctively that getting on base was highly important to their responsibility at the plate. The only time a hitter would choose to NOT try to get on base is if he is attempting to sacrifice a runner over, through a fly ball or bunt or hitting a grounder to the right side. But a run-producer, which Dawson was, also knows that he can drive in more runs by, you know, getting more hits. That's kind of the point of the game.

Unless, of course, you're arguing that Andre Dawson somehow would have been able to get on base more often if he had known how important OBP would be considered by the time he got on the ballot. Which is kind of silly.

Dawson did try to get on base -- he just didn't have the skill set to do it as well as, oh, <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/OBP_career.shtml">more than 1,000 other</a> major league hitters in history.

 

excellent response to a ridiculous argument.
Yes, players back then thought it was ok not to get on base, what a fucking ridiculous argument.

 

Jeter is as overrated a player ever.

And he's a slam-dunk HOF player.... even now, I think.