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Hines Ward -- Hall of Famer?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by outofplace, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. cyclingwriter

    cyclingwriter Active Member

    I think you may be referring to me about Owens... I really think it will be a push. Owens was explosive on the field. In terms of taking over a game, the only contemporary who was better was Moss. I am not saying the guy wasn't good, but here are some quick things that I think will hurt him.

    -- He pretty much ruined every team he went to or left them in a wreck. There was the gay comments with Garcia, the post super bowl meltdown with reid and mcnabb, the failed expectations in Dallas, a forgotten season in Buffalo and a train wreck of a year with the Bengals.
    -- I was covering the NFC West when he was with the Niners. Now, Mizzou, I know you have a more vest interested in them then I do because you grow up in the area, but I got the feeling that they were a team that was coming together quickly in the early 2000s for another run of success, but was derailed by Owens in the locker room (and the Yorks of course in the front office).
    -- To me, a guy who plays great but who methodically drives his team into the ground is not a HOFer. Lawrence Taylor, for all of his drug problems, was never a guy who blasted his own team.
    -- He seemed to miss a lot of passes thrown to him. Maybe I was nitpicking in my head based on what I saw of his outside demeanor, but maybe I am not.
    -- Finally, I am not a voter and never will be unless for some act of god I have to go back to writing again for newspapers so really my opinion is no better than anyone else.
     
  2. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    None of our opinions are better than anyone else's. It's a debate. I may think you're crazy, you may think I'm, crazy, we're entitled to our opinions...

    I would never blame Owens for the downfall of the Niners. That was all about the Yorks and some beyond idiotic coaching hires. Garcia had an option year that they couldn't afford and Owens wanted out. Even as a die-hard Niners fan, I didn't blame him at the time.

    It's also not a coincidence that in this stretch where the Eagles have been consistently good for the better part of a decade, it took the addition of Owens to make the Super Bowl.

    Was there a lot of bad? Of course, but for about a decade he was the best or second best WR in the league. He and Moss are both complete douchebags, but they're both douchebags who should go in on the first ballot... In my opinion... :D
     
  3. cyclingwriter

    cyclingwriter Active Member

    all valid points.
     
  4. Big Circus

    Big Circus Well-Known Member

    Do people really view Cris Carter as a compiler? I get that he never led the league in receiving yards, but he was over 1,000 eight years in a row, with five straight years of double-digit TDs. Calling him a compiler is punishing him for being consistently excellent.

    I'm a Vikes fanboi, and I get that Carter was a huge asshole, but it boggles my mind that people don't think he's Hall-worthy.

    Also, things that I learned while researching this post: TO's middle name is "Eldorado."
     
  5. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    I brought up the word, so I will say that Carter is a definite HOFer and above Ward, but he is a compiler in that he ranks third all-time in receptions and eighth in yards and I don't think he ranks close to there in comparing how good he was with other receivers. First-team All-Pro twice in his 12 years in Minny. Just as a comparison, Herman Moore was a first-team All-Pro three times.
     
  6. cyclingwriter

    cyclingwriter Active Member

    to tweak the fanboi in you a little, I find it fascinating that Carter's slightly above par Vikings teams from the 1990s already have Moon, Randle, McDaniels and Zimmerman in the Hall. Moss will get in there too. When Carter goes in, that is six guys from a team that was not all that great.

    And people complain there are nine steelers from the team team that won four super bowls in the hall.

    That being said, Carter should be in. I felt he was better than Irvin, who was a contemporary.
    One other thing, I think that hurts him as well is he played for a spell in the same division as Herman Moore and Sterling Sharpe. For a few years they were way ahead of Carter, but injuries derailed them while Carter kept chugging along well into the 2000s.

    It is subtle things in the room that sways votes.
     
  7. I don't think Moon got in because of what he did in Minnesota.
     
  8. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Smoked, drank and snorted his way out of Philly, IIRC. Literally.

    "All he does his catch touchdowns," is a quote that will stick with him for a long, long time.
     
  9. Big Circus

    Big Circus Well-Known Member

    Man, you guys are really screwing with my loyalties. My inner 10-year-old who grew up on Virginia football wouldn't dare say anyone was better than Herman Moore. I LOVED Moore-to-Moore in Charlottesville.

    cyclingwriter, I definitely see your point on the glut of 90s Vikings in the hall. My only counter would be that I wouldn't count Moon in that number, even though he played for them and had good years. He was in Houston three times as long as he was in Minny and put up most of his huge numbers there. If this were the baseball HOF, he'd go in in an Oilers helmet.
     
  10. cyclingwriter

    cyclingwriter Active Member

    True, but I just noted he was a HOFer on those teams. He also played at a very high level there. Zimmerman may be better remembered as a Bronco as well. I just find it fascinating.
     
  11. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    There are three seperate groups of Vikings who all should have at least one SB win.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2009.htm
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/1998.htm
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/1976.htm
     
  12. cyclingwriter

    cyclingwriter Active Member

    And I would say Carter may have been the best overall player on those teams at least from a fame standpoint as a viking...so it is doubly odd that he is behind two offensive lineman (who both deserve to be in there) a qb who deserved it (but really was an oiler) and a defensive lineman in the Hall.

    And to jump on what Devil just posted, it is also odd that the 1990s Vikings have had so many honorees while it took years for Eller and Krause from the 1970s teams go get in there. I personally think Tinglehoff should be in there as well from those teams.
     
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