1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

High school baller looking at Europe

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by 93Devil, Jun 24, 2008.

  1. BrianGriffin

    BrianGriffin Active Member

    I don't know exactly what you are looking for and I couldn't give it to you even if I knew what it was. After all, you somehow found me "bashing American ballplayers" though I have not. I simply stated that the value system is different so they are going to have different strengths and weakness.

    If you look at deft-passing, big men who can shoot like Divac (to use an old-school example), Sabonis, Okur, Nowitzki (yes, he's a big man), Ilguauskus and Radmonovic, you get a sampling of what is valued in Europe. All are 6-10 and above. All step out and hit the jump shot and they are deft at making the high-low pass under the assumption that their shooting ability has drawn their man out and opened the inside for cutters.

    When you look at Euro wings like Stojakovic, Vujacic, and Torkoglu you see the stereotypical European shooter in the mold of a Drazen Petrovic.

    Of course, there are always exceptions. Kirilenko of the Jazz is a long-wing span run-and-jump defender with a very American-styled game. He can shoot, but is much more likely to slash and he's a one-on-one, on-ball defender. Pavlovic of Cleveland is also an athletic-type wing and Biedrins of Golden State is a true inside player who is lean and athletic.

    The playing style is generally different and I don't blame some teams from shying away from European players. If the foundation of your team is one of one-on-one guys accustomed to the American game, then sticking in a single European player can screw up chemistry. But conversely, if you are the Spurs, you can put together four NBA-quality starters from overseas who are adept at the international game and add with them Bruce Bowen, who had some international experience, and you can have some great chemistry and drive opponents crazy. I enjoyed watching Sacramento play a very European game under Adelman. I enjoyed watching Webber develop into essentially, a European-style player. It was a smart play in his part because the best of his run-and-jump days were behind him, but he still was gifted with great hand-eye coordination that made him a great passer out of the high post and a good mid-range shooter.

    The point of all of it is, there is a lot of basketball being played outside this country and a lot of it is being played very well. There is enough good basketball happening outside our borders that I think it gives this country some reference points for self-criticism. Saying our country has overvalued one-on-one basketball is not a complete indictment of American players, it's just an observation about them. And besides, most of what I base my opinion on is feedback of American players who have left here to play overseas. They're the ones coming back telling me "they all can shoot and it's no wonder, because they have the kids in the gym running shooting drills all day," and things like that.
     
  2. Big Chee

    Big Chee Active Member

    Yet, most of them are allergic to playing in the low blocks and lack any sort of defensive ability. Basketball historically has proven itself to be an inside/out game. And a 7'0 jumper shooter who can pass and hit jumpers isn't benefitting his team to the degree an offensive anchor in the low blocks can. And like I said, the names of european players you bring up are no different than the Kevin Garnetts, Carlos Boozers, and Jermaine O'neals of the world. And outside of Dirk, none of the names you brought up have been as productive as the names I just mentioned.

    There's nothing sterotypical about those players that I can't tie to American ball players. As if Ray Allen, Michael Redd, jason Kapono ( who said he would've been a 1st round pick had his name ended with "vich) and others can't be cherry picked. (side note: Drazen Petrovic is my 2nd favorite player of all time behind Magic Johnson. he personally made me a Nets fan. I cried with my daughter in my arms when I heard he died. I loved that guy. I haven't seen a European player with his grit since he left). We're just way too accustomed to attaching the shooter sterotype to European players.

    I have NO problem with American players receiving criticism, but the absense of criticism and the appearance of people defending the European players when criticized shows the lack of balance and unfairness the american ball players face.
     
  3. BrianGriffin

    BrianGriffin Active Member

    I'll start with your last point first. It's all about context. The discussion of international basketball began within the context of the discussion of Whitlock's column, which suggested that foreign-heavy teams cannot win in the NBA. In this thread, the context was your disagreement with the notion that Europeans tend to have a more well-rounded game. So the context of the discussions have led to refuting Whitlock's notion and those who agreed with his first column (evidently, Whitlock doesn't believe his own column) and your problem with the notion that Europeans are more well versed in a variety of basketball skills.

    If there is a thread that starts with the header "American players suck compared to Polish players," then I might be more inclined to point out the weaknesses of Euro-ball.

    I think the comparison between Garnett, Boozer and O'Neal to Euro bigs is somewhat fair. Garnett is spot on. I don't think Boozer and O'Neal are comfortable being the high in the high-low game and they need to be volume shooters. In that way, they are strictly Americans in their approach. Garnett is like a lot of Europeans in that he's comfortable with the notion of having a "good" game on a day where he's 5-for-9 from the field and scores 15 points. However, in this country, he gets criticized for it for being soft and not wanting to put the team "on his back." I think he's right not to force things and to stay within the structure of the team game. Certainly, nobody is going to argue that Garnett is not supremely competitive.

    Of course, it is real easy to defend Garnett right now, isn't it?

    This isn't a zero-sum game. Just because you can name American shooters does not disprove the observation that the American player development system de-values shooting as a skill. There are two different cultures.

    There is an American coach who went to Europe and spent a year learning the game and he wrote an article about it for NBA.com. I think it's a great read and gives you a good idea what I'm talking about:

    http://www.nba.com/features/stotts_sabbatical_20071220.html?loc=cta
     
  4. CollegeJournalist

    CollegeJournalist Active Member

    Kelelnna Azubuike has had a pretty solid season and a half for Golden State since coming from the D-League.

    That said, the D-League still sucks and so does the one-year rule.
     
  5. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    William Rhoden has a column on this - Feels by this move, the kid is somehow sticking it to the NBA for their new rule.

    Feels it will force the NBA to rethink their rules.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/sports/basketball/23rhoden.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
     
  6. Twoback

    Twoback Active Member

    It's all myth.
    Look up the NBA statistics. Good luck finding all those great European shooters!
     
  7. Football_Bat

    Football_Bat Well-Known Member

    A lot of people will be watching how Jennings fares in Europe, like they watched Garnett and McGrady when the high school draft trend started. If Jennings succeeds, the floodgates will open across the Atlantic.
     
  8. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    You are right. Not as many as I would have thought, but there are a few.

    Peja
    http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=STOJAPR01

    Dirk
    http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=NOWITDI01

    Vlad Rad
    http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=RADMAVL01

    Detlef
    http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=SCHREDE01

    Drazen
    http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=PETRODR01
     
  9. tapintoamerica

    tapintoamerica Well-Known Member

    If I'm Lute Olson, I've heard all I need to hear from this guy and I'm spending my time in helping him find an agent and a team. Now that he has indicated the extent of his desperation to avoid college, I'd feel compelled to facilitate his move.
     
  10. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    yes sir - Both Arizona and the NBA should call his bluff and let him go. His friends will see him on Sports Center in about 5 years.
     
  11. Big Chee

    Big Chee Active Member

    For every Peja there's a Kapono

    dirk is a unique figure and doesn't embody the average European player mired on some NBA bench. And the other names you mentioned aren't anymore gifted than the Michael Redd's and Ray Allen's out there.

    As far as Drazen, he's the only player inthe last 16 years to shoot over 50% from the 3 point line while averaging over 20 ppg.

    He is NOT some standard European player.

    Point blank, European players seem to find just as difficult a time to get off their shots in the NBA as do American players.
     
  12. CollegeJournalist

    CollegeJournalist Active Member

    Um, unless California just joined the EU, Jason Kapono is an American.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page