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here's what's in store for ichiro...

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by shockey, Jul 9, 2011.

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  1. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    You would be wise to read up on a fellow named Hideo Nomo.
     
  2. CarltonBanks

    CarltonBanks New Member

    You are 100% correct. I should have said he is the first position player that was a highly-touted Japanese import. Chan Ho Park also wants to kick my ass right now, even though he's Korean.
     
  3. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    The writer of this article is an absolute idiot.

    I think the reason so many stats people value walks so much is because it suggests a discerning batting eye and an unwillingness to get yourself out by swinging at bad balls. Ichiro is unique because he can take what most of us consider a bad pitch and turn it into something productive. His ability and talents are so out of the norm that some just aren't able to come to grips with it. And to try to find any fault with his defense is ludicrous.

    Ichiro is, easily, a first ballot HOFer and one of the very best players of the last decade. I haven't really bothered to rank him against his peers, but at least among position players, I'd be hardpressed to argue where Mizzou had him. Somewhere in the top 10, and maybe top 5, seems more than reasonable.
     
  4. ttomea

    ttomea New Member

    Ichiro is simply a one-of-a-kind type player
     
  5. JonnyD

    JonnyD Member

    It's not that stats people value walks so much. It's that non-stats people don't, and thus that's where one of the big differences between us lies, so that's what we always end up arguing about.

    More than 100 years ago, the guy who invented the box score didn't think walks should be credited to the hitter, and most fans never thought to question that. Even worse, somehow the divisor for batting average became at-bats instead of plate appearances, which makes no sense at all.

    Ichiro has 1271 career singles with the bases empty. If a quarter of those had been walks instead, he'd have the exact same value to his team with a .283 career batting average and we wouldn't have any of this silliness about him being one of the top 5 players of his time or whatever. He'd probably be undervalued by the same people who are overvaluing him now, and he'd be a borderline HOF case with statheads arguing his case.

    Without looking, would someone like to guess how many times Ichiro has been in the top 10 in MLB in OBP for a season? His primary offensive skill is getting on base, so this would seem pretty relevant to ranking his abilities.
     
  6. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    I know there are some true seamheads on here, but is it just me, or is he a much, much better player than other Hall-of-Famers, who are known as singles a doubles hitters like Boggs and Gwynn, not that there is any shame in being compared to Boggs or Gwynn.
     
  7. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    He's not as good a hitter as Gwynn was or as Boggs was in his prime, but he's so much better at fielding and base running than they were, which effects how people see him. All three are prodigious batters who didn't hit a lot of homers, so they get lumped together, not unjustly, I think.
     
  8. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    I think he's every bit the hitter Boggs was, and probably better.
     
  9. JonnyD

    JonnyD Member

    You do realize that Wade Boggs was way, way better at getting on base, right?
     
  10. JonnyD

    JonnyD Member

    Gwynn is a good Ichiro comparison. A little better peak hitting, but obviously gives it back in defense and baserunning.

    Boggs >>> either of them.
     
  11. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    I didn't until I just looked it up. Turns out Gee was more right than I expected. Gwynn actually has a higher slugging pct, thanks to the doubles, than Ichiro. Same for Boggs. Guess I've always underrated Boggs.
     
  12. JonnyD

    JonnyD Member

    So did MVP voters. He never finished in the top 3, and for my money he had at least five seasons where he had a very solid case for winning it.
     
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