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here's what's in store for ichiro...

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by shockey, Jul 9, 2011.

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  1. Drip

    Drip Active Member

    Fuck the stas. Ichiro is in the HOF, even if he quit today.
     
  2. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    i might not go THAT far (too many great players with more power in line with him) but i certainly understand the argument in his favor...

    oh, and for sabermetrics and/or 'small ball' fanatics who worship at the altar of bases on balls, the ONLY time a walk is as good as a hit (and it's only a single) when the bases are empty.

    at all other times, a single is better than a walk 'cause it gives you the chance to move runners up more than one base at a time. in little league, when we'd encourage batters with, 'c'mon, a walk's as good as a hit,' it was because the batter sucked and we were looking for any way to get him on for a better hitter on-deck.
     
  3. Mark McGwire

    Mark McGwire Member

    The lack of a basic understanding of advanced metrics on this thread is typical.

    A walk is as good as a single about 60 percent of the time. (Didn't we have a whole thread on this?) About 40 percent of the time, a single gives you an added benefit. And, as a side note, runners do not always go from first to third on a single, so, yes, there are plenty of times when a walk and a single are the same, even with runners on base. Or with runners on first and second and less than two outs, etc. That said, those differences can largely be accounted for by metrics we already have. It's a silly thing to start a fight over.

    The important thing to note, as always, is that not making an out is always a good thing.

    As to Ichiro, he's a first-ballot HOFer. His numbers show that. Watching him shows that. So I really don't get what the argument's supposed to be about.
     
  4. mb

    mb Active Member

    I'd say the argument is about the jackwagon that wrote the hit piece.
     
  5. Mark McGwire

    Mark McGwire Member

    Didn't finish it, to be honest. Fair enough.
     
  6. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    YUP. THIS ABOVE.

    that's why some sabremetrics-bashing occurred here; part of the guy's point is that ichiro hasn't walked enough, had as high of an 'obp' as he should, yada yada yada, among the reasons why he's not really as ALL THAT as he initially believed or as the rest of us should think.
     
  7. JonnyD

    JonnyD Member

    And *this* is why statheads get accused of hating him.
     
  8. JonnyD

    JonnyD Member

    If we could all just agree that Ichiro is a really good player who has an interesting skill set, then statheads and non-statheads would be in harmonious agreement on the subject. It's the people who have to come along and say he's one of the top 5 players they've ever seen or whatever that force statheads to say "Wait a minute, he's not *that* good and here's why."

    And the whole maddening "He could hit home runs if he wanted to" thing. Do you think anyone would care if Alfonso Soriano claimed he could stop striking out if he wanted to, and used his batting practice swing as proof."
     
  9. deviljets7

    deviljets7 Member

    There were some very interesting points in the article, but IMO a lot of the credibility is shot when he makes the assinine comment about his defense. The part where he takes a shot at Ichiro (and in turns blasts Bagwell, Giambi and Helton) was also extremely dumb.
     
  10. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    This is not a smart piece.
     
  11. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Maybe it's circumstantial, but the fact that the lead anecdote comes from Oakland Coliseum in the early 2000s makes me think the writer is a Disciple Of Billy who sees little difference in the 2001 performances of Jeremy Giambi (OPS .841) and Ichiro (OPS .838).
     
  12. CarltonBanks

    CarltonBanks New Member

    The thing I like about the piece I posted is that we should all be taking our kids to see Ichiro before he is done...or checking him out ourselves if we haven't seen him live. He is a very unique player and the first (other than the nightmare that was Hidecki Irabu) Japanese import that came here with a ton of fanfare. It is hard to describe how quickly he gets down the line on a ground ball...you kind of have to see it to understand.
     
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