Has anyone ever REALLY worked with you?

jones - it's easy to point someone to a spot on the horizon when they have a full bottle of skills from which to drink ... not so easy when the cup has few droplets of talent splashing around.

 

Oh, I get that Tommy. There's a base standard that comes into play. But I still believe that a good writer and a great editor will combine to make better stuff than a great writer and a mediocre editor.

 

I have always held good writing and good writers in the highest regard.

And yet, when I hear writers talking about their "voice," all I can see is ...

 

agreed.

and you do know i'm going to toss out an editor's perspective every now and then.

 

No doubt. Those were just my experiences. I see where I did a bad thing and generalized a little in the post.

 

My first boss is now a writer who probably polarizes this board as much as anybody we talk about.

He beat the shit out of my copy and pushed me to stretch every day. Definitely a major plus.

These days, most of the guys I edit have been doing it for a long time, so there's not going to be any "mentoring" there. And they trust me with their copy.

 

This is something I've always wanted -- for my editors to be better than me.

I have no illusions of being the next great novelist, or anything, and most of my editors have been better. But some haven't.

I envy you, Jones. I don't think anything I've ever written has gotten seven edits, even though I've been fortunate enough to have gotten at least some pretty hard edits, and have always liked engaging in the process.

That kind of time and attention, however, seems pretty hard to come by at most newspapers.

You're very lucky. And, of course, as someone else already pointed out, you're also good.

For that reason, I pay close attention to your writing (even of posts), as well as to everything you say to us on here.

 

As I've mentioned on here before, I probably am closer to the latter than I am to the former. I've been extraordinarily lucky in that some of the student writers I work with either actively seek feedback (one in particular comes to mind) or gratefully accept it whenever I provide it. I can count on one hand the times I've gotten the ingrate. Those I edit whether they like it or not.

Having said that, I had to learn to provide that sort of feedback from trial and error. It literally took two different full-time reporters (both of whom were essentially starting their journalism careers in their own right) approaching me and saying, "look, I think you need to talk to [student writer]." After the second one, I started doing so without being prompted as I've gradually gained confidence in my editing abilities.

I can't help occasionally feeling like I may not be editing what I should or catching everything I should be at times. I get the sense that I've gotten better at being able to make big picture changes when they're needed and a better sense of the minutiae that I usually end up dealing with. It's taken a full two years of practice, though.

As someone else mentioned, I frown on the tendency to overedit or to rewrite into the editor's voice. I've chided my current full-time reporter when she's gone too close to that line. I'll edit stories to conform to AP style or to journalism style in general, but if there's no need for an edit, I won't edit. I might add to a story if I have information the writer doesn't, but that's about it.

As to Jones's post about his relationship with Peter, I wish I had an experienced editor who could work with my stuff and make it better than it is. The closest I've had recently is a former full-time reporter of mine with whom I've stayed in contact. Even though I'm 10 years his senior, I've developed a strong sense of trust in his ability to tell me when I've fucked up or when I could fine tune something.

Writing and editing are two very different skill sets. You can be a strong writer and a so-so editor. You can be a great editor and a mediocre writer. Rarely is anyone solid in both regards.

 

I'm going to somewhat agree with this -- but editors who have written (and I might extend that to "written reasonably well") have added value, I think.

 

I take it the guy in the first example was not named Tom Wolfe.

 

Jones,

If you could kindly post Peter's phone number, that would be great. Thanks.

 

I envy anyone who has an editor who helps their writing. For most of my career I've been a one-man shop where I was my own editor, and now I've moved up I have an editor who spends less than five minutes "editing" a story, and never once has she made anything approaching a useful suggestion.
I'd give anything to work with an editor who took enough of an interest to tell me what I'm doing wrong, or to make subtle suggestions to help me write better.