Hall of Fame Poll

If I was a voter...

Raines is the only one in that group who would get my vote.

Hershiser and Belle and maybe Cone would be close. I would have no problem if Trammell or Whitaker got in, two of the most underrated players of their era.

I feel bad for Mattingly, but I kind of see him as baseball's Terrell Davis.

Kingman - Not with that average.
McGwire - No because of steroids and because even with steroids he was largely a one-dimensional player.

 

I don't think it's a big deal, but there's no way it helps him. Belle doesn't need to give voters any more of a reason to leave his name off the ballot.

 

You have to combine it with steroids for the maximum effect, anyway.

 

Mattingly would have been in if he had just cut those sideburns.

 

Trammell and Whitaker:

1) Have almost precisely identical career stats;

2) Also have nearly precisely identical career stats to Ryne Sandberg and Barry Larkin, who sailed into the HOF;

3) Have better career stats than probably 75% of the middle infielders currently in the HOF.

4) Were keystone components of a perennially-contending and briefly dominant team.

5) Did not play in a historically heavy-offense era -- both retired just as the 90s roids/power boom was getting under way, so their stats need not be discounted as the product of playing in a high-octane offensive period.

 

I agree completely.

 

His fielding as a left fielder are basically dead average and for such a long career that's actually kind of good-he was +24 runs through his first 1700 games or so.

His dWAR is low because left field gets about a -7 run per 162 game positional adjustment (which is dead on with the extra average offensive value of a left fielder) and he also DHed 131 games and pinch hit only in around 200 (which I think also counts as DHing and DH's get about -14 runs per 162). All that means is that a DH would have to put up 14 runs above average on offense to be rated an average all around player.

 

6) Each won multiple gold gloves.
7) Each performed well in the post season.
8) Each have numerous comps who are in the Hall of Fame.

 

I vote for the Montgomery Brewster candidate -- "None of the Above"

They all had very solid careers, in some cases a great career, but I don't think any are Hall of Fame worthy.

 

How did Raines bounce from team-to-team? In his first 19 seasons, he played for three teams, including 11 in Montreal and five with the White Sox. We're not talking about Rickey Henderson here.

Very few players avoid bouncing from team-to-team by the end of their careers. By the same definition, Greg Maddux, Willie McCovey, Orlando Cepeda, Dave Winfield, Eddie Murray and many, many others "bounced from team-to-team".

 

Mel Stottlemyre, played in one but never won one, (was the pitching coach for Torre on some winning WS teams). He's 7th on career wins as a Yankee. 3rd in innings pitched, 7th in Ks, 4th in starts

 

I'm not a big fan of statistical comparisons to other players as it regards to HOF membership. There are so many variables that come into play that skew it. Compilers vs. peak value players, etc.

According to baseball-reference, Milt Pappas has three Hall of Famers among his top 10 as those who most statisically compare with his carer, including Don Drysdale, who had the second-most similar. I really doubt anyone's going to argue that Pappas deserves the HOF on that basis.

The comparison argument can be turned against Trammell and Whitaker too, especially Trammell.

Trammell's 10 most similar players:

Edgar Renteria (918)
Barry Larkin (915) *
Jay Bell (875)
Lou Whitaker (868)
Tony Fernandez (865)
Ray Durham (864)
B.J. Surhoff (858)
Ryne Sandberg (857) *
Pee Wee Reese (851) *
Julio Franco (847)

Whitaker's:

Ryne Sandberg (900) *
Alan Trammell (868)
Roberto Alomar (858) *
Joe Morgan (850) *
Buddy Bell (849)
Joe Torre (844)
Ray Durham (844)
Brian Downing (843)
Barry Larkin (842) *
Julio Franco (833)

* HOF'ers.

Trammell has a few HOFers, but more good-to-average guys on his list, including several who are HOF no-hopers like Jay Bell.

Surprisingly, Whitaker has more cache on his list, but he was also quite average for a significant portion of his career. He only hit over .300 twice.

He was a compiler, and while there's nothing wrong with that -- it shows he was remarkably consistent enough to be good enough to be a compiler -- at no point did Whitaker achieve as a player beyond just a general respect for being a good player.

He was never a great player. Even Trammell has that over Whitaker as Trammell had well, two, great seasons surrounded by a lot of good-to-average ones.

I thought both Larkin and Sandberg were better than Trammell and Whitaker. They could hurt you in more ways.