Gulf Of Tonkin, Can I Help You?

Ease up. It was a throw-away comment to get a rise out of someone.

 

Yeah, but if Blackwater "contractors" were operating the ship, the speedboats would have been lit up a mile away.

 

. . . or a whiskey bottle . . .

 

Gotta agree with TBF on this one. When the situation is happening, you're thinking imminent threat. Your training starts to take over and there's an almost automatic nature to the responses. Fortunately, the skipper didn't fire. But he certainly would have been justified, regardless of where the voices were coming from.

 

I'm sorry but, given the events of the past seven years -- hell, given the events of the past seven months -- I'm not giving out the benefits of many doubts. The Pentagon puts out this tape with the scary voices for two news cycles BEFORE it realizes that the voices are not from the craft in question? Why not hold the tape back until you're sure? Unless, of course, you wanted two news cycles of scary Iranians.

 

And of course we know that in FenianWorld, the U.S. military and the U.S. government are wrong about absolutely everything.

 

Not to be needlessly argumentative, but how does what you posted have anything to do with what Fenian posted?

And the Navy's already admitted they aren't sure now who said what on which radio to whom. Seems germane to the story.

http://www.africasia.com/services/news/newsitem.php?area=mideast&item=080110192819.xerlp21h.php

 

No Tonkin gulf discussion is complete without the transcript of LBJ ordering new Haggar slacks, Date 8/ 9/64 - right after the incident took place. Possible that LBJ troubled by the fact that his pants did not fit could have used bad judgement:

The President: Mr. Haggar?

Haggar: Yes sir, Joe Haggar.

The President: Joe, is your father the one that makes clothes?

Haggar: Yes sir, we're all together.

The President: Ya'll made me some real lightweight slacks, that he just made up on his own, sent to me three or four months ago. It's kind of a light brown and a light green, rather soft green and soft brown.

Haggar: Yes sir.

The President: And they're real lightweight. Now I need about six pairs for summer wear. I want a couple of...maybe three of the light brown, kind of, uh, almost powder color, like powder on a lady's face. Then there was some green, and then maybe some of the light pair, if you had a blue in that or black, if I could have one blue and one black. I need about six pairs to wear around in the evening when I come in from work.

Haggar: Yes sir.

The President: And I need...they're about half an inch too tight in the waist.

Haggar: Too tight? Do you recall the exact size or was this one of the ones we truly did 'em right for you?

The President: No I don't know. Ya'll just guessed at 'em I think, son. But don't you have the measurements there? I can send you a pair. I want them a half inch larger in the waist than they were before, except I want two or three inches of stuff left back in there so I can take 'em up. I vary 10 or 15 pounds a month.

Haggar: All right sir.

The President: So leave me about two and half, three inches in the back where I can let 'em out or take 'em up and put...make these a half-inch bigger in the waist. Make the pockets at least an inch longer. My money and my knife, everything fall out. Wait just...

(the President muffles the phone and speaks to another person)

The President: Hello?

Haggar: Hello.

The President: Now the pockets. When you sit down in a chair, the knife and your money comes out, so I need at least another inch in the pockets.

Haggar: All right.

The President: Yeah. Now another thing, the crotch, down where your nuts hang, is always a little too tight. So when you make 'em up, give me an inch that I can let out there, because they cut me. It's just like riding a wire fence. These are alllmost...these are the best I've had anywhere in the United States. But when I gain a little weight they cut me under there, so leave me uhhh...you never do have much margin there, but see if you can leave me about an inch from the front of the zipper (at this point the President loudly belches into the phone) ends, right on under the back of my bunghole.

Haggar: All right sir.

The President: So I can let it out there if I need to. Now be sure you got the best zippers in 'em. These are good that I have, and if you can get those come in I will sure be grateful.

Haggar: Right. Where would you like them sent, please?

The President: The White House.

Haggar: All right.

 

They didn't say the voices weren't from the craft. They said the voices could've been from the speedboats. Could've been from the shore.

Who do you believe? The Iranians? Or the 'Muricans?

 

For even more sobering reminder google the US Cole

 

Great point...but where is the evidence that the communication could have come from another ship...was there another ship in the area and if so, who was on it. Could it have come form shore...sure, but the story specifically cites the possibility of coming from a ship not involved in the video. So where is this ship?

If anyone had a chance to listen to the Iranian video, the chatter is routine for any country assessing the intentions of the US Navy near there territorial waters. Although our ships were in international waters, the Iranians have every right to assess what the coalition ships are doing by straight communication...I don't hear our ships being very forthcoming, hense the quick circling of the speedboats...the bullshit you hear in the US video about blowing them up...who the fuck believes that shit?

 

You are either Sean Penn or an Iranian