Greatest shortstop ever - who do you pick?

You aren't even entertaining accidentally.

 

I wonder if anybody other than you and I get the joke here.

Move along, fart boy.

 

Exactly how a lot of us here look at your posts.

 

Are you bleeping kidding me?
Bernie Williams, even at his peak, wasn't even the best center fielder in the history of his own franchise -- and that's not even a discussion that's close. I wouldn't even say he was the best center fielder in the majors at any point of the 1990s.
And there's some fella named Aaron, played back in the 60s primarily, had a solid career. Maybe you've heard of him. Played right field for the Braves?
Jim Thome? I like him, but he's not in any "best ever" discussions.

Seriously, did you compile that list from playing a circa 1998 MLB game for the Super Nintendo?

 

Yes. Jim Brown.
I'd say Wilt Chamberlain and Gordie Howe, too (even though they were closer to 40 years ago) but it's safe to say they've been passed by Jordan and Gretzky, respectively. They're still in any right-thinking person's top 3 or 4, though.

 

Oscar Robertson also entered the league more than 50 years ago.

Manky is obviously trolling here but he still knows nothing. Is there anyone on here with less sports credibility?

 

just cause i love throwing out my all-time team and the original list was so fucking pathetic:

1B: gehrig
2B: hornsby
SS: rodriguez
3B: schmidt
C: bench
LF: williams
CF: mays
RF: clemente (homer pick)
DH: ruth for righties and aaron for lefties
LHP: koufax
RHP: walt
RP: rivera
MVP: mays

 

Dave Concepcion and Larry Bowa.

 

Luke Appling.

 

Alright, I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this since it's a trolling thread, but here goes nothing.

Here's my current rankings at shortstop. There was one player who posed a real problem when making my rankings, and I'll mention him first.

HONORARY NUMBER 1: Dickey Pearce
There is a case for rating him the number one shortstop all-time, and it can be summarized in four words:

He invented the position.

Technically, the position of shortstop existed before Pearce made his debut in 1856. Back then, however, shortstop was where a team would hide its least valuable defensive player. He wouldn't have as much area to cover compared to the outfielders, and he wasn't responsible for covering any bases, so he couldn't do that much damage on defense.

Pearce changed that by figuring out how a shortstop ought to play defense, and single-handedly shifted shortstop from one end of the defensive spectrum to the other. He was arguably the best baseball player in the first half of the 1860s, and had a long career, playing at the top level of competiton until 1877.

Evaluated strictly as a player, Pearce would probably be among the top twenty shortstops of all time. The competition he faced at his peak wasn't the greatest, but the fact that he was able to play so long does mean something. Still, when ranking shortstops, how does one ignore the fact that Pearce was the one that created all the strategy and defense that we associate with the position?

1) Honus Wagner

1897-1917. Need I explain? Best hitter, fielder, runner in league from 1900-10. 2nd best player ever. 'Nuff said.

2) John Henry Lloyd

1906-32. Greatest SS ever produced by Negro L. Happily, He hit tremendously also. Wagner said that it was a compliment to be compared to "The black Wagner". Decorative ornament to ANY league.

3) Alex Rodriguez

According to the projections at baseballthinkfactory, Lloyd's peak wasn't as high as I thought it was, but he still has enough career value to stay in second place for now.

4) Arky Vaughan

Vaughan has traditionally been underrated; while teammate Traynor used to figure heavily in discussions of the best third baseman of all time, Vaughan almost never appeared in determining the second-best shortstop of all time. Traynor had the impressive batting average, but he was dreadful at drawing walks; Vaughan, on the other hand, led the NL in walks three consecutive years during his peak.

5) Cal Ripken
6) Robin Yount

The two are fairly close in win share numbers. Yount had 5 seasons with 30+ win shares, while Ripken had just 3. On the other hand, Ripken had 13 seasons with 20+ win shares; Yount, 10. Since we are ranking shortstops, Ripken gets the advantage because because he was able to play shortstop longer than Yount was.

7) George Davis

An impressive career, and decent peak. Adjusting Davis' seasons to 154 games, he had 14 seasons with 20+ win shares (which would be second among shortstops behind you-know-who), and missed what would have been a 15th in 1903 because of lawsuits involving Davis, the New York Giants, and the Chicago White Sox.

Davis had one season with 30+ win shares, but three seasons which project to 29 win shares over 154 games. There are a bunch of shortstops with one 30+ win share season, but several 29-win-share seasons: Appling (3 29-win-share seasons) and Trammell (2 29-win-share seasons) are others.

8) Joe Cronin

9) Barry Larkin

Larkin is another underrated player. While Ozzie Smith kept getting the attention with his glove, Larkin was actually better overall. He had eight seasons with 25+ win shares; that's at least two more than any other major leaguer under consideration for this position had.

10) Ernie Banks

Another peak vs. career question. Banks' overall career value isn't out of place in comparison to his competitors for tenth, and he had more great seasons than the others under consideration did.

11) Willie Wells

12) Luke Appling

I'm not sure who the tenth-best major league shortstop was. It could be Appling, or Reese, or Trammell, or Dahlen.

Honorable mention: Perucho Cepeda

Cepeda is somewhere in the 8-15 range, based on his reputation and the statistics we have from the second half of his career. The statistics indicate some great seasons for Cepeda during his early thirties, with at least two seasons which would project to 30+ win shares in the majors. Unfortunately, we don't have the statistics from the Puerto Rican leagues during the first half of his career which would enable me to get a more exact feel of how good he was. Without them, I'd probably go Appling-Trammell-Reese-Cepeda-Dahlen from 12 to 16 for now, but I could very well change my mind the next time I look at everything.

 

Ted Williams sez Phil Rizzuto. Sez it very loud. Then refuses to tip his cap or wear a necktie, flies coach to Islamorada, charters a boat and lands two tarpon.