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Greatest pitcher of all time?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Ilmago, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Ilmago

    Ilmago Guest

    In your opinion, who do you believe is the greatest pitcher of all time and why?

    If he weren't juiced, Roger Clemens would have a great case for being called the best pitcher of all time.

    Guys like Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Grover Cleveland Alexander, Christy Mathewson, Cy Young, Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn, Greg Maddux also have good arguments.

    Despite pitching his entire career in hitters parks, in the best hitting era in baseball history (until the juiced-up 1990s), Grove led his league in ERA NINE times...that might be the single most impressive credential claimed by any starter. Grove's winning percentage of .680 (300-141) is the highest among pitchers who had long careers. There are a whole lot of HOF pitchers who are nowhere near Grove's 300 wins, but still have many more loses than Grove did.

    Tom Seaver had a W/L record of 311-205, a .603 winning percentage. In 20 years in the majors, Seaver pitched for EIGHT losing team, plus four others who were only over .500 because of Seaver's own efforts.

    Nolan Ryan, on the other hand, was basically as good as the teams he pitched for...he didn't raise his teams up very much at all.

    Ryan was an amazing pitcher to watch... had he pitched for great teams, his W/L records would be great... but Seaver had great records even when his teams weren't any good.

    Seaver was a much better pitcher than Ryan...by again, Ryan was amazing to watch.

    Warren Spahn won 363 games in the post-WWII era, despite the fact that he didn't win a major league game until he was 25 years old (military service).

    It's hard to determine who the greatest pitcher of all time was. The conditions of the game have changed drastically over the last 100+ years.... there's a reason so many pitchers easily won 25 to 30 games (or more) in a season prior to 1920.

    Walter Johnson didn't throw 100 mph...there's no way he could have done that with the windup and delivery he had... he SEEMED to throw that hard because he threw much harder, on every pitch, than anyone else did. Most pitchers, because the baseballs were dead in those days, could afford to throw 70 mph fast balls until there was a danger of a run being scored, then they'd bear down and throw their 85-90 mph fastballs... Johnson threw hard all the time, not just in the 'pinches'. But this "saving" or "pacing" of a pitcher was a major part of pitching science in the dead ball era.

    So after all that this is who I believe is the greatest pitcher of all time

    Walter Johnson, who won 416 games over a 21 year carrer with the Washington Seanators which perienally was little more than a second divison team. A lifetime ERA of 2.17, he won 20 games 12 times and more than 30 twice and still holds the MLB record with 110 shutouts.. Of his 279 losses, 65 were by he giving up 2 runs or less, I think he was beaten 1-0 35 times. he led the American League in strikeouts 12 times, victories 6 times and a streak of 7 straight years he had an ERA under 2.00. He also had a lifetime batting average of .236 and holds the record for a pitchers batting average season when he batted .440. He was so good that Charlie Cominsky of the rival Chicago White Sox payed half his salary NOT to pitch for the rival Chicago Whales of the Federal League, to keep him from jumping to them. He was also a humble man, probably baseballs most beloved personality before Ruth became the mega star of his era.
  2. Pancamo

    Pancamo Active Member

    Joba Chamberlin
  3. Drip

    Drip Active Member

    Seriously, it's all subjective.
  4. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Jamie Moyer
  5. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    My boy asked me that this week. I came up with Cy Young based purely on his wins 511 (I think). I recall Christy Mathewson was pretty amazing.

    Clemens/Maddux/Randy were great for the past 30 years. For about a 10 year run I'd have to say the Big Unit was as dominant as anyone.
  6. Bubbler

    Bubbler Active Member

  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I think it's Walter Johnson.
  8. Azrael

    Azrael Active Member

    Bob Gibson laughs and laughs and laughs at every one of you.

    Then brushes you back, up and in.
  9. ThomsonONE

    ThomsonONE Member

    I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that Johnson couldn't have thrown 100mph. There are many accounts by players of that era that lived a long life that Johnson was the hardest thrower they ever saw, even faster than Feller who was once clocked at 107mph. Many players and writers have said that they have never heard a ball sound like a Johnson fastball, even Feller's or Grove's. It's hiss was unique and terrifying.

    The evidence points to Johnson really throwing at over 100mph when no one else came close, which is what made him so dominant.
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Dooley Womack, of course.
  11. HandsomeHarley

    HandsomeHarley Well-Known Member

    Nolan Ryan was the greatest pitcher of our time.

    I believe, in different eras, Walter Johnson and Bob Gibson were the greatest.

    Off the juice, Clemens sucked, as his Toronto numbers showed. Kofaux didn't pitch long enough in my book. Others were consistent, or great for a short while, but I think Ryan was the most consistently dominating pitcher since Gibson.

    I mean, there's the no-hitters and the strikeouts, but look how many one-hitters the guy threw. Who can compare?
  12. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Cy Young. They named an award after the guy.
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