Greatest Left Handed Pitcher In History

gauging these great pitchers by how they fared against some great hitters is ridiculous. or i suppose we should put tommy hutton in the hall of fame because he owned tom seaver.

 

i beg to differ. those five seasons WERE exponentially better than any five-season stretch the others in this discussion had. although when talking about pitchers of this calibre, exponentially is a pretty tall order.

 

Here are those five years:

14 7 2.54 184.1 57 216 1.036
25 5 1.88 311.0 58 306 0.875
19 5 1.74 223.0 53 223 0.928
26 8 2.04 335.2 71 382 0.855
27 9 1.73 323.0 77 317 0.985

How much more unhittable was he than these five years, especially having to factor in different eras and ballparks?

20 4 2.28 213.0 77 291 1.052
17 9 2.48 271.2 70 364 1.020
19 7 2.64 248.2 76 347 1.118
21 6 2.49 249.2 71 372 1.009
24 5 2.32 260.0 71 334 1.031

Three percent? Five?

 

I made no such suggestion. I provided those facts because I was curious and thought I'd share. Note the "indicative of nothing" disclaimer.

 

beats me, math man. use any adjective you'd like; exponentially, markedly, indisputably -- by any measure, they were better.

and as some others have said in similar discussions here -- statistics are great. but at some point, we must put the calculators down and trust what our eyes tell us. the "i know it when i see it" approach.

let me put it this way: what my eyes and statistical analysis tell me is that koufax has no equal. and, yes, the the greatest numbers you listed above are all great by any measure; but, yeah, in a discussion comparing the "greatest," adjectives are relative. obviously, koufax's numbers were "exponentially" better than the general population of his day. in a debate about the greatest ever, in my opinion, yeah, koufax's numbers are exponentially better.

by the way, whose numbers are you comparing his to above?
just curious..

 

That second set of numbers belongs to Randy Johnson, who pitched in an era with juiced-up hitters, bandbox ballparks and lower mounds. Were his five years better than Sandy Koufax's best five years? I don't know. But I can make the argument.

Relying on the "eye test" for someone who pitched 45 years ago is, how shall I put this nicely ... unreliable. Unless you're blessed with a photographic memory.

And no one gets to use Koufax's elbow as either a positive or a negative. You could argue he would have kept on being a dominant pitcher. I could argue his overall numbers would have started to even out as he aged, like Randy Johnson, Warren Spahn and Steve Carlton. There's no way to know.

 

my eyes were good then and memory remains fine. koufax was close to unhittable -- i mean, almost literally -- during that span. i never considered johnson, while also tremendous, "unhittable." i believe koufax's numbers back me up there.

but we could go on and on... it's hit the point of being boring and fruitless. the issue of who is the greatest left-handed pitcher in history. i gave my answer.

i missed your vote, horse man. is johnson your choice? or are you just playing devil's advocate?

if you saw koufax and believe johnson was better, i'm good with that. our vision can be different. but if anyone who did not see koufax comes into the discussion lacking a key element.

 

I'm playing devil's advocate.

I think Koufax was better, by an ant's ass hair, than Johnson. But I would argue Johnson had the better career.

Regarding "unhittable": Johnson had four straight seasons of 320-plus Ks and his BAA was about .212. His career BAA is .221. Koufax is .205. They BOTH were unhittable.

 

Pitcher? Koufax.

Pinata? Zach Duke.

 

Eric Bedard.

 

need not argue there. his healthy left arm blessed him with a great, looong career, with 100-plus wins more than koufax.

randy had the better "career." koufax was a better pitcher. except for the shortened career, randy and sandy's journeys were remarkably similar. stereotypical tale of southpaw power pitchers, generally considered wild stallions in their earliest years who explode and dominate once they mature and tame the lightning in their arms...

 

Who was the best one-armed left-handed pitcher in history?

I think Secretariat should track down the fielding percentages for all of the players who were behind these guys. Then I think we should factor in stadiums and whether or not the guy got a BJ after the game.