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"Government Motors" returns to top of world's auto sales

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You can compare it to a Schwinn, if you want. But that misses the point.

    It's a passenger vehicle designed to be a person's primary mode of transportation. Most people go shopping for cars. Not for the technologies that make the car run.

    In that regard, it is very comparable in its features to a Toyota Corolla, which is why the comparison (car for idiots) by that guy from Audi is so funny.

    If you want to compare it to a Prius, as a passenger vehicle the Volt is still a way overpriced car. So it's not exactly a flattering comparison either.

    But I am starting from a more basic place. I want a car. If I want a set of features that is in the class of a Toyota Corolla, I can spend $16,000 to $18,000 for the Corolla itself. Or I can spend $40,000 on a Chevy Volt. Add in a government reward of $7,500 (at taxpayer expense) for buying the Volt and I still got that type of car for way more money than if I had just bought the Corolla.
  2. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Who hacked Boom's account?

  3. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Wow, Ragu, you must be really pissed to learn I get a $900 tax credit every year for driving a BMW 335D.

    Have you ever sat in a Volt?

    A Carolla?

    I have; the cars interiors are worlds apart.

    And as for the government credits you go on and on about, you are aware that without government support, gas would be $12 a gallon -- if it's even available after Iran shuts down the Straits and our military is not around to stop it, or to stop the overthrow of the Saudi sheiks.
  4. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    People shop for cars within market segments. Otherwise why have pickup trucks or minivans or BMW M3s or Hummers or Camaros or Fusions or Mustangs? Almost no one shops for a "passenger vehicle designed to be a person's primary mode of transportation." If that were the case we'd all still be driving a Model T.

    And people do actually discern between automotive technologies all the time. Diesel vs gas being only the most obvious of these.

    And whether or not you think the economics or science or technology makes sense at this moment, there is a growing market segment in alternatives to internal combustion.

    Whether or not the government should stick its nose in is a philosophical argument.

    What would have happened to American history if the government hadn't incentivized the building of a transcontinental railroad, for example?
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Nope. I am not aware of any such thing. Thanks for the info. I am looking at RBOB Gasoline Futures contracts right now. Current month sitting at 2.91 per gallon. With that bit of inside info you just gave me, I should be able to arbitrage some money and walk out with HUGE profits. After that government support of $12 a gallon, I will presumably be buying gasoline at negative $8 a gallon! Talk about freebies. Did you just make us all rich?
  6. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Oops, I was wrong.

    $15 a gallon.

  7. Pancamo

    Pancamo Active Member


    Chrysler adding 1800 jobs.
  8. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    Fuckin' Chrysler plant, here I come!!!!! :) :) :) :)
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Seriously? That thing was done somewhere in the mid 1990s. How did you even find it? And included in it's "subsidies" were things like regulatory oversight and U.S. military spending in the Middle East. Mind you, this was at a time when gas was $1 a gallon. So I am sure the guy could throw some numbers in a hat today and try to argue that gas actually costs $45 a gallon somehow.

    I'd respond, but I am not sure I could even find the actual study (I just looked and they apparently don't have it on their website anymore), given that it was something thrown out there 15 years ago or so -- and done with the most questionable methodology imaginable.
  10. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    The military spending in the Middle East is the whole point, professor.

    Without it, the Volt wouldn't be an option -- it would be the only choice.
  11. Football_Bat

    Football_Bat Well-Known Member

    The problem with plug-in electric cars is they're not as green as you think. They get their energy from the grid, which is still predominantly powered with carbon fuels: coal and natural gas. About 20% is nuclear and about 7% is hydro. Wind and solar generation just won't be ready for prime time until the technology and the cost improve.

    I don't know how efficiently a Volt would use that generation fuel vs. gasoline, when you look at kilowatt-hour usage. It would have to be significantly cheaper to offset the high price of the car and that probably wouldn't cover the lifetime of the car.

    Plus, I could never drive a plug-in until the range improves greatly. I'd need to get at least 150 miles to cover my work-related travels, to be sure.
  12. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Again, Bat, that's the point...no technology that I know of sprang forth from the earth fully developed (OK, at least since Grog picked up the first stick).

    All of your concerns are being targeted by industry ... better batteries will insure longer distances between charges; solar and wind power is being brought online quicker than ever before ... a few million in tax subsidies is a wise investment if it results in an entirely new personal transportation paradigm in the next decade or so.
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