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"Government Motors" returns to top of world's auto sales

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, Jan 20, 2012.


    YGBFKM Guest

    Well, playing that part would give anyone a blood pressure of about 840/770. It's like listening to the Wizard of Oz on PCP.
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That is a nonsequitur, not a retort. Their name came from where they first met, not that bridge.

    And it also still doesn't address whether or not the Volt was a huge taxpayer funded boondoggle, what the posts were about until he chimed in with the ad hoc nonsense.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  3. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Ragu -- I am not a big fan of the Volt either, but as to the specific numbers I think it's a little early to tag the entire cost of development on the number of cars currently sold. I'm sure that in the mid-1980s it would have been reasonable to wonder why the fuck the government was spending so much money per cell tower.
  4. Magic In The Night

    Magic In The Night Active Member

    Seriously, why are we already calling it a boondoggle when it hasn't even been for sale a year yet, has it? Someone I work with has one and loves it, btw.
  5. FileNotFound

    FileNotFound Well-Known Member

    I suspect the reference to "a decade" regarding the Volt includes its percursor, the EV1, which actually dates to the early '90s: http://www.greencar.com/articles/20-truths-gm-ev1-electric-car.php
  6. Uncle.Ruckus

    Uncle.Ruckus Guest

    I'd like to hear some more about the plight of the poor bondholders.

    Talk about not knowing your audience.
  7. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Payoffs on public investments don’t always come right away. Some technologies don’t pan out; some companies fail. We can not walk away from the promise of clean energy.

    Why cede the wind or solar or battery industry to China or Germany because we refuse to make the same commitment here? We’ve subsidized oil companies for a century.

    It’s time to end the taxpayer giveaways to an industry that rarely has been more profitable and double down on the promise of clean energy.
  8. BitterYoungMatador2

    BitterYoungMatador2 Well-Known Member

    taxpayers lost an estimated $124 billion on the savings and loan mess of the 80s, and we're gonna' bitch about this in comparison? Talk about stealing wealth...
  9. Hokie_pokie

    Hokie_pokie Well-Known Member

    I'm trying to decide who is more stubbornly ignorant, the Paterno defenders or the Obama defenders.

    Please, for fuck's sake, would somebody with a shred of intelligence address the salient point in Ragu's posts: that by dicking around in a publicly traded company, the government knowingly screwed bondholders (to the tune of 5 cents on the dollar) and created an environment where being a non-secured investor in any company has become a risky proposition?

    I don't care which side of the aisle we all fall on. I don't care if it's a Republican or Democratic administration. It is not the federal government's job to pick winners and losers in business deals.

    But what the fuck, who really cares about more billions in debt that were spent to make sure tens of thousands of Obama voters (union members) were able to keep their jobs?
  10. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It has been more than a year. And they didn't come close to their goal of 10,000 sold in the first year. Don't call it a boondoggle, if it bothers you that much. But it's fair to say that there hasn't been much of a market for it. Last year, the Toyota Corolla sold more than 240,000 cars alone in just the U.S. Put that in the context of GM's goal, which was a mere 10,000 Volts sold, and the fact that they sold only 6,000, and I am not sure how you don't call it a boondoggle. Billions of dollars of government subsidies floated around this thing -- lots of politically-connected people have been rewarded by taxpayers over this thing. And who exactly has it benefited?

    Even with that, another aspect of this thing that is disturbing, is that in trying to force a market for this thing, our government has subsidized the Volt. Buy one and get a tax credit of $7,500. With the government in the car business, though, this creates a huge conflict of interest. It hasn't been a major issue, luckily, because they built an overengineered car that sells for way too much -- not surprising when government pork in the billions of dollars was given to people to engineer it.

    They are choosing to push electric vehicles, despite the fact that the market isn't demanding them. So what do they do? They give themselves a competitive advantage with tax breaks (government owned car company. government legislation to give their chosen car a leg up) that car companies not owned by the government -- and actually trying to market vehicles that are in demand -- have to compete with. Again, it hasn't been a major problem, because the thing is way overpriced even with the generous subsidy.

    But the Justice Department won't even consider that this is an antitrust violation, because the Justice Department is in on it, as long as the government is in that dual conflict of interest role. How are those tax credits (advantages to the car company the government is involved with) fair to the dozens of car companies that don't have the government backing and are trying to compete based on what their customers are demanding?
  12. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Why do we keep comparing the Volt to the Corolla? How about we compare it to the other cars in its market segment, the Leaf or the Prius?
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